not sure what the answers are to some questions.....
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  1. #1
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    Default not sure what the answers are to some questions.....

    sorry if this is posted somewhere else.. i have not posted on here much...

    i am studying for cpe and i have a book and study notes from several different people ... some of the information i don't think is right.. therefore i have some random questions

    for example
    when photographing a dark skinned subject, an incident meter reading taken at subject position reads f5.6 .. the correct aperture setting would be 5.6 .........
    why is this right ? incident reads the light.. so yes, it may read 5.6 but that would tell you what to set your camera on if you were photographing an 18percent gray card.. since you are photographing a dark skinned subject wouldn't you need to open up some ?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: not sure what the answers are to some questions.....

    and standard color temp of daylight is 5500... correct ? one book that i read said 5000

  3. #3
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    Default Re: not sure what the answers are to some questions.....

    No you would not have to open up.

    You are working with an incident meter which gives you the proper exposure for the light falling on your subject. An incident meter will give you an exposure that will render a gray card as 18% gray. If the skin tone of the subject were to be a zone darker, it would render it darker, placing it in the proper tonal range. If you were to open up, you would render the darker sking tone lighter than actual.

    If you had taken a reflected light reading from the dark skin, the meter would give you a reading that would reproduce the skin tone as 18% gray. In this case, assuming that the skin tone is darker than the gray card, you would have to close down a zone or two in order to render the skin tone as it actually was.
    Last edited by Rick_Massarini; 01-04-2013 at 04:19 AM.
    The best way to gain for yourself is to give OF yourself.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: not sure what the answers are to some questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
    and standard color temp of daylight is 5500... correct ? one book that i read said 5000
    The color temperature of ambient daylight varies with the altitude, time of day, amount of atmospheric haze, and the amount of blue sky or clouds above you. At noon on a clear day it's in the 5000-5500 range. With reflection from a blue sky it gets higher in the 5500-6000 range. Atmospheric haze adds more blue and starts to push it up into the 6000-6500 range, cloudy overcast days can push it up even higher - for example, if you've ever been in San Diego during the "June Gloom" you know just how blue it can look. If you're being very critical, use a color temperature meter or if you're using digital (probably) use a custom color balance from a neutral gray target card.
    Last edited by Rick_Massarini; 01-04-2013 at 03:54 AM.
    The best way to gain for yourself is to give OF yourself.
    - - - So get out there and volunteer for something ...


    Rick Massarini, M. Photog., Cr., CPP., F-PPLA
    PPLA Past President; 97th Recipient PPA Directors Award
    ASP SouthWest District Rep. & ASP Convention Booth Chairman


  5. #5
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    Default Re: not sure what the answers are to some questions.....

    cool .. thanks for you reply.... i have to think on all this for a moment

  6. #6
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    Default Re: not sure what the answers are to some questions.....

    incident reader doesn't know what your subject is... it doesn't know if it is light or dark... it just reads the light and tells you 'hey, if you want 18percent gray do this' .. correct....

    so why would it know if it was a zone darker

    i must be missing something

  7. #7
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    Default Re: not sure what the answers are to some questions.....

    ok.. maybe it's this...

    i am not opening up because of what the meter said... the meter is correct.. i am opening up because my subject is darker than 18percent gray

  8. #8
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    Default Re: not sure what the answers are to some questions.....

    It's not as difficult as it sounds - an incident meter reads the light falling on the subject, so if you place a black card, a white card, an 18% gray card and a skin tone in a scene and photograph it using an incident reading, all three of the cards and the skin tone would be captured in their actual tone.

    If you were to photograph the same three cards and a face with a reflected meter reading, metering from the 18% gray card, then all the cards and the face would be properly rendered.

    If you were to photograph the same three cards and a face with a reflected meter reading, metering from the white card, the meter would give you an exposure that would make that white card 18% gray so the white card would be rendered gray, the gray card would be close to black, the black card would be totally black, and the skin tone would be darker than actual.


    If you were to photograph the same three cards and a face with a reflected meter reading, metering from the black card, the meter would give you an exposure that would make that black card 18% gray so the gray card would be rendered white, the white card would be pure white with no detail. and the skin tone would be much lighter than actual.

    A real life situation would be a bride in a white gown and a groom in a black tux. Reflected meter reading off the bride gives you an underexposed gray dress and dark skin tones as the reflected meter tries to make the dress 18% gray. Reflected meter reading off the groom gives you a gray tux and an overexposed face as the meter tries to make the black tux 18% gray. This is sometimes referred to as "subject failure" - it's not actually any kind of failure except that of the photographer, it's just the meter doing exactly what it is designed to do - give you a reflected reading that will render the subject as 18% gray. For these two situations, the proper exposure for the bride would be to take the reflected reading and open up a couple stops, for the groom, it would be the reflected reading closed down a couple stops. Or - the correct reading for both would be the incident reading taken from the subject position with the incident dome pointed back towards the camera.
    Last edited by Rick_Massarini; 01-04-2013 at 04:44 AM.
    The best way to gain for yourself is to give OF yourself.
    - - - So get out there and volunteer for something ...


    Rick Massarini, M. Photog., Cr., CPP., F-PPLA
    PPLA Past President; 97th Recipient PPA Directors Award
    ASP SouthWest District Rep. & ASP Convention Booth Chairman


  9. #9
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    Default Re: not sure what the answers are to some questions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
    ok.. maybe it's this...

    i am not opening up because of what the meter said... the meter is correct.. i am opening up because my subject is darker than 18percent gray
    Not sure which answer is referring to... It depends on whether you are using incident or reflected and what you're metering off of...
    Last edited by Rick_Massarini; 01-04-2013 at 04:51 AM.
    The best way to gain for yourself is to give OF yourself.
    - - - So get out there and volunteer for something ...


    Rick Massarini, M. Photog., Cr., CPP., F-PPLA
    PPLA Past President; 97th Recipient PPA Directors Award
    ASP SouthWest District Rep. & ASP Convention Booth Chairman


  10. #10
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    Default Re: not sure what the answers are to some questions.....

    ..............you know what .. i just realized what i was thinking ... if i open up then i would make this dark person 18percent gray... idon't want to do that ... i want them like they are .....duh.... totally was thinking to deep on that

    in my defense, while i was trying to think on this and type... my middle child let her dog in the house and exclaimed "i think my dog smells funny, kind of like a skunk," then the dog ran thru my living room and rubbed all over the couch , so i have been typing this and googling how much tomato paste it takes to get that smell out.....

    after the dog and the child got a shower... i came to a light bulb on my question and realized what i was doing wrong.... wow.. maybe it's bed time for me now


    thank you so much for your help ... i really want to know the answers ...not just for the test but for me !
    i appreciate your time

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