EI prints used in other comps?
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  1. #1
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    Default EI prints used in other comps?

    I'm going to start working on my EI Masters next SEPPA. I was curious if I could submit an image both in the EI category and in another category?
    In other words can the same image merit in two different categories that way I could get merits for EI, plus work on my extra merits i need at the same time.
    Next question, if it doesn't merit in EI, could i submit the same image to a different category at another competition?
    thanks.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: EI prints used in other comps?

    No...once an image merits in any category it's done. Can't submit the same image in multiple categories.

    If it doesn't merit you can make changes or try again at a later date. That would be the importance of getting a crtique so you have an idea of where the image fell short.
    Joe Campanellie
    CPP, M.Photog., Cr., Fellow-ASP

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: EI prints used in other comps?

    great. Thanks Joe
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: EI prints used in other comps?

    Andrew,

    Actually you will no longer be able to earn the EI degree. It has been renamed the Master Artist degree. If you already had merits toward the EI degree you had the option to finish up earning the required merits within 2 years (2011 & 2012) and still be known as a Master of Electronic Imaging. That grace period was added when the name was changed because of me. I am already a Master Artist (from before when it was traditional artwork) I objected to having to be known as M.Photog., M. Artist, M. Artist, Cr. PEC researched it and I was told I am the only PPA member in this situation so they decided to give me two years to finish up. I thought that was very fair. Of course that two years also applies to anyone else who would prefer to be known as a Master of Electronic Imaging rather then a Master Artist. Because you said "I'm going to start working on my EI Masters " I know you do not have any EI merits yet and it is impossible to earn 13 EI competition merits in one year, so you will not be able to make the deadline. You will be a Master Artist when you finish earn the merits, not a M.E.I.

    Next you asked " if it doesn't merit in EI, could I submit the same image to a different category at another competition?" Joe answered this but I want to elaborate. If an image does not merit it can be entered again in another competition and you can change the catergory. For example if it does not merit in EI you can enter it in the next competition as EI OR PO. I know two people who did exactly that, entered an EI print at SEPPA and did not merit, so they entered the same exact print at Northeast in PO and recieved a seal. I had an image that did not merit in EI last year. I made some changes and entered it at SEPPA this year and again it did not seal. I made some more changes and entered it at IPC that just finished. That was all perfectly within the rules. If an image does not merit it is the same as an image that has never been entered in the eyes of PEC.

    Keith
    Last edited by Keith_A_Howe; 06-16-2011 at 10:47 PM.
    Keith A. Howe
    M.Photog.,M.Artist, Cr.,D.F.Ph.

  5. #5

    Default Re: EI prints used in other comps?

    Keith,
    Thanks for that info. I had no idea they'd changed the name of the degree to Master Artist.

    Question for both Joe and Keith...
    I heard this question floating around at the Judges School this week.
    If someone got a seal at their regional, but the image could have been sent to SEPPA and entered under Artist (MEI), could they bust the seal, and re-enter at SEPPA next year?

    Also, I've been told that if you aren't a member of SEPPA, you aren't eligible for Kodak or Fuji Awards, or any of the others as a matter of fact, even though SEPPA is the only Artist Juding. Is that right?
    M. Photog., Cr. CPP
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: EI prints used in other comps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_McCall View Post
    If someone got a seal at their regional, but the image could have been sent to SEPPA and entered under Artist (MEI), could they bust the seal, and re-enter at SEPPA next year?
    First off, just so no one gets confused, you can no longer get a seal at a region competition. Seals are only given at the district level. BUT!! A region can host a district judging. So like this year our region was HOA and they hosted the Northcentral district. The seal was from north Central

    yes, you can bust the seal. I assume it got a PO seal somewhere? and they didn't send it to IPC this year but chose to hold it for next year as an EI entry. Not a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_McCall View Post
    I've been told that if you aren't a member of SEPPA, you aren't eligible for Kodak or Fuji Awards, or any of the others as a matter of fact, even though SEPPA is the only Artist Juding. Is that right?
    As far as I know there are not any Kodaks or Fuji's given for the EI catergory Maybe there were at SEPPA and then IMO those should have been open to all EI entries, not just in region. Some states or regions may have EI competition. I don't know for sure. But the only place that is an affilate EI comp where seals are possible is at the SEPPA district competition.

    I do not have a problem with awards being for in region or in state only at district competitions. People who are out of state or region ( but in district) still have their own states and regions to be eligible for awards. Why should they also have a chance to take awards away from those of us who only have one shot because our region happens to be hosting the district that year.

    Keith
    Keith A. Howe
    M.Photog.,M.Artist, Cr.,D.F.Ph.

  7. #7

    Default Re: EI prints used in other comps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith_A_Howe View Post
    First off, just so no one gets confused, you can no longer get a seal at a region competition. Seals are only given at the district level. BUT!! A region can host a district judging. So like this year our region was HOA and they hosted the Northcentral district. The seal was from north Central
    Officially confused.
    My region is Southwest. or am I misreferring?

    Dave Huntsman kept referring to districts at Judging School. I'm having trouble distinquishing between Region and District. Help me out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith_A_Howe View Post
    As far as I know there are not any Kodaks or Fuji's given for the EI catergory Maybe there were at SEPPA and then IMO those should have been open to all EI entries, not just in region. Some states or regions may have EI competition. I don't know for sure. But the only place that is an affilate EI comp where seals are possible is at the SEPPA district competition.

    I do not have a problem with awards being for in region or in state only at district competitions. People who are out of state or region ( but in district) still have their own states and regions to be eligible for awards. Why should they also have a chance to take awards away from those of us who only have one shot because our region happens to be hosting the district that year.
    Like you, I'm all for keeping awards in state. (I got two 98's in New Mexico, yet all the hardware went to 84 and lower scores).
    BUT....if SEPPA is the ONLY place I can enter EI (Artist), why wouldn't I be eligible for awards, since that's the ONLY place I can send them.....or am I misinformed?
    Last edited by Mark_McCall; 06-16-2011 at 09:46 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: EI prints used in other comps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_McCall View Post
    Officially confused.
    My region is Southwest. or am I misreferring?

    Dave Huntsman kept referring to districts at Judging School. I'm having trouble distinquishing between Region and District. Help me out.
    Districts started last year after IPC. SWPPA was the first one. It just so happens that SW district is the same name as your region. I do not know if the new SW district is the same states that are in the SWPPA region. It could very well be. Anyway - SW district judging takes place at SWPPA. In the Northcentral district - which I am a part of - there rae 10 states and two Canadian provinces. http://www.ppa.com/pdfs/pecdistrict.pdf shows the map. Those states and provinces never belonged to a region called North Central. So our district judging was hosted by either a state or a region within that district. This last spring it was hosted by Heart of America region.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_McCall View Post
    Like you, I'm all for keeping awards in state. (I got two 98's in New Mexico, yet all the hardware went to 84 and lower scores). ?
    A lot of awards are decided in head to head judging - not by score. It is very comman for a lower scored print to recieve an award over a higher scoring print.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_McCall View Post
    BUT....if SEPPA is the ONLY place I can enter EI (Artist), why wouldn't I be eligible for awards, since that's the ONLY place I can send them.....or am I misinformed?
    What awards? As far as I know there aren't any specific awards strictly for EI. Kodak and Fuji do not give awards in the EI catergory as far as I have ever heard. Plus if SEPPA chooses to give awards for EI - that is a SE thing, not a PEC award. They can set the criteria to win however they want. PEC's only concern is seal or no seal. It is the only place you can send them for seals but I don't think it's the only EI competition anywhere. Other places may have EI competitions. I think I heard that FL does. It's not SEPPA's fault that SWPPA doesn't have an EI catergory. So why should they have to share their awards? SW certainly can if they want - it just would not be an affiliate ( for seals) competition. But SW could have an EI competition and give out all the awrds they want. The issue is numbers. Are there enough people entering EI to cover the cost of having a comp.

    Hope this helps clear things up a bit.

    Keith
    Last edited by Keith_A_Howe; 06-16-2011 at 10:48 PM.
    Keith A. Howe
    M.Photog.,M.Artist, Cr.,D.F.Ph.

  9. #9

    Default Re: EI prints used in other comps?

    Thanks for that info. I'm the webmaster for Southwest and this is the first I've heard of the district thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith_A_Howe View Post
    A lot of awards are decided in head to head judging - not by score. It is very comman for a lower scored print to recieve an award over a higher scoring print.
    Perhaps I should have elaborated.
    At Southwest, Kodak Gallery, Fuji Masterpeice, as well as all other trophies are awarded to members only. If someone enters from outside the region, they can merit, but they're not eligible for awards.
    Same goes for state level in Texas and New Mexico, as per my comment above.

    I'm assuming SEPPA offers the same set of awards (or close to it) that SWPPA does. But unless I've been misinformed, SWPPA members entering in EI can enter their stuff at SEPPA but aren't eligible for hardware, even though we have no other place for EI to be judged. Am I making sense? and do I have it wrong?

    I'm aware of the problem with the number of prints coming through EI and the cost associated with judging them.
    I guess what I'm saying is.......
    Since PPA members have no other place but SEPPA to enter EI, why are SEPPA members the only ones eligible for trophies?
    Again, I may be totally misinformed.
    And I'm ok with states/districts keeping all awards in house, but it seems all that goes out the window if that's the only place we can send EI prints.

    It seems to me that, if SEPPA is the only district that can accept EI prints, awards given should be open to all that enter, not just SEPPA members.
    I'm sorry,...I may not be parlaying my point very well. And apologies if I'm misunderstanding.
    Last edited by Mark_McCall; 06-16-2011 at 11:49 PM.
    M. Photog., Cr. CPP
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    Vice President, Texas Professional Photographers Assoc
    Professional Photographic Certification Commission
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  10. #10

    Default Re: EI prints used in other comps?

    Keith Howe – A heartfelt Thank You for voicing your objection to the MEI/M.Artist name change. I’m very close to earning the EI degree and becoming the first in my state to do so. However, there is already a traditional M.Artist here and I feel that it will confuse a lot of people if these two different degrees have the same designation. It’s good to hear that there is now the option to distinguish between them as they both represent a great deal of dedication to obtain in different disciplines.

    [QUOTE=Mark_McCall;257302]

    Like you, I'm all for keeping awards in state. (I got two 98's in New Mexico, yet all the hardware went to 84 and lower scores).
    QUOTE]

    Correction - I personally received multiple "hardware" for a print that scored 97 during the same competition in which Mark McCall mentioned his two 98’s. Nor was I the only New Mexican to earn awards for prints scoring in the 90’s this same year. (Wanted to clarify this as there are a lot of gifted photographers here in the Land of Enchantment and it’s only right that their hard work and talent be recognized and not misrepresented.)

    Once again Keith – you have my appreciation for helping to avoid a great deal of potential misunderstanding in regard to the MEI/M.Artist degree designation.

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