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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Ottawa Ontario
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    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    I thought we could have some more fun with this thread, I know I know, all of these questions have been asked before....but it gets the mind working for us that are new

    okay, If someone's 20 images are outstanding and proof of their ability to shoot professionally and is a clear representation of the past experience in their career, why do you need the extra proof with writing the exam? Should not the body of work be the proof in the pudding so to speak? if you have a great portfolio then obviously you know what you are doing right? or no?

    So Example Joey Lawrence above, is he not a certified professional photographer? Definition if certify is : officially recognize (someone or something) as possessing certain qualifications or meeting certain standards , I think his work proves he meets certain qualifications and standards.

    Same for VII agency shooters, Magnum, Reuters, Canadian Press, Photojournalists.
    They are all highly certified professional photographers by the very definition of certified. Does it matter how they create their body of work or just that they are super talented and then that qualifies them to be a certified professional photographer.

    I can hear the answers coming back again that if the shooter has that much experience and is that good then they would pass the exam anyway......so if it is that redundant, why incorporate it? if someone can show they are already at the professional level producing professional work.

    So this makes me come back to the HOW someone produces the work, is this what the exam is all about? To determine how someone produces their images and is this a valid part of the determining factor in who is pro and who is not. MAybe this is our last string we can cling to in determining who is pro and who is not? Is this where we are able to draw the line in the sand?

    Is the exam giving us a tangible way of dividing the line in a very subjective industry.
    Suzanne Bird, CPP
    Ontario CPP Liason

    Photography unleashed!
    suebird@urbandogphotog.ca
    613 296 4658

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Normal, Illinois
    Posts
    7,783

    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    Quote Originally Posted by urbandogphotog View Post
    I thought we could have some more fun with this thread, I know I know, all of these questions have been asked before....but it gets the mind working for us that are new

    okay, If someone's 20 images are outstanding and proof of their ability to shoot professionally and is a clear representation of the past experience in their career, why do you need the extra proof with writing the exam? Should not the body of work be the proof in the pudding so to speak? if you have a great portfolio then obviously you know what you are doing right? or no?

    So Example Joey Lawrence above, is he not a certified professional photographer? Definition if certify is : officially recognize (someone or something) as possessing certain qualifications or meeting certain standards , I think his work proves he meets certain qualifications and standards.
    JL, however, is clearly a statistical outlier, and the process has to be set up for the peak of the bell curve. There would not be any way for the commission to know whether 20 images represented the only decent twenty images the photographer had taken in her life, or was truly representative of her actual talents.

    It helps to determine exactly what she's got in her head about the craft across the board.

    I can hear the answers coming back again that if the shooter has that much experience and is that good then they would pass the exam anyway......so if it is that redundant, why incorporate it? if someone can show they are already at the professional level producing professional work.
    But he may show only one type of skill in his portfolio, and the certification is intended to convey expertise/knowledge of more than one narrow type or style of work.

    In the IT world, the discussion is going in the opposite direction: A lot of IT professionals don't like the fact that most certifications are based solely on testing ("paper qualified"). They'd like to see some evidence of real on-the-job expertise as part of the certification process.

    I don't know where the certification commission is on this issue right now, but last year they were planning to institute "compulsory" portfolio requirements.
    Last edited by KirkDarling; 02-25-2011 at 02:44 PM.
    --Elephants can swim...
    ...and very gracefully.
    Knowing that,
    I do believe
    Anything is possible for me.

    Kirk Darling, CPP

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Morganfield. KY
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    3,434

    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    I'm not sure why this is an issue but I think it can be pretty easy to explain.

    The test confirms your knowledge.
    The images confirm what you can do with that knowledge.

    If you want the certification commission to stand behind that and declare you certified by their standards then you have to prove you meet them on their terms.

    It's obviously not mandatory to be certified but they have to draw their lines in order to be credible.

    I couldn't imagine a reason I would want a short cut.
    Greg Yager CPP


    "Be prepared to lose anything you are not willing to share" - me

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Hudson, NH
    Posts
    6,047

    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    okay, If someone's 20 images are outstanding and proof of their ability to shoot professionally and is a clear representation of the past experience in their career, why do you need the extra proof with writing the exam? Should not the body of work be the proof in the pudding so to speak? if you have a great portfolio then obviously you know what you are doing right? or no?
    Imagine a really prolific shooter that managed to spray and pray 20 good images over 2 years. Someone that had vision, but poor technical skills. This person could pass the image submission portion, but have little to no idea how to replicate such images on demand. And that's part of what being a professional is; being able to produce top quality images on demand.

    Additionally, producing 20 "above average" images over 2 years at 650 pixels on the large dimension provides no proof of being able to produce large prints or follow best practices. The exam covers such practical matters as well. There's just no good reason not to include both phases of the certification process. It's a reasonable stake in the ground to provide proof of a basic level of competence.
    Mark Levesque, CPP, M. Photog., Cr. Photog, A.C. Ph., CPP Liaison, PPCC Judge

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ottawa Ontario
    Posts
    283

    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    I like this statement Mark,
    This person could pass the image submission portion, but have little to no idea how to replicate such images on demand. And that's part of what being a professional is; being able to produce top quality images on demand.
    This is something that i can use to argue further to someone challenging the certification process.
    Suzanne Bird, CPP
    Ontario CPP Liason

    Photography unleashed!
    suebird@urbandogphotog.ca
    613 296 4658

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