Acknowledgment of prior professional work - Page 2
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    I am actually quite shocked to hear and dismayed a bit to learn you could actually attain a masters with not shooting one photo.
    What he said was one "portrait." You still have to achieve 13 exhibition merits, but they can simply be "pretty pictures" as opposed to client work.
    Mark Levesque, CPP, M. Photog., Cr. Photog, A.C. Ph., CPP Liaison, PPCC Judge

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    Quote Originally Posted by urbandogphotog View Post
    I hear what you are saying and understand about qualifying the elements of knowledge, but i will not agree that acknowledging someone's career in photography as a professional as an addition to the cpp process is giving anyone a short cut, calling it a short cut is discounting many many incredible shooters who are professional without cpp beside their names that in reality in my opninion should have certified professional photographer tatooed on their arms. there were no short cuts taken in their careers, just hard work, clients who respect their work, counting on them to know their job inside and out and phenominally talented..
    So who decides? Because there are photographers out there, who have been in business for years and maybe even made a pile of money but their work is sub par. In order for the designation to mean something, there has to be some kind of governing body that somehow rates the photography to see if it lives up to the designation. So how are those "govenors" going to decide who gets credit for past life experience and who doesn't? Because to just say "oh if you have been in business X# of years you automatically are certified" would dilute the meaning of the designation. I suppose they could ask the people who have been in business a long time to submit samples of their work. Oh wait a minute! that's already what they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by urbandogphotog View Post
    I am actually quite shocked to hear and dismayed a bit to learn you could actually attain a masters with not shooting one photo.
    You didn't read that right - you can get a Master's without ever taking a portrait, you can enter landscapes, or art photograhy, or commercial, sports, journalism etc etc. But you do have to create and enter photographs to get a Master's

    Quote Originally Posted by urbandogphotog View Post
    Enticing professionals to mAintain their crAft and be a part of a designation has to make them feel welcome and acknowledged. Just wondering if they would be more willing to keep their cpp or get their cpp if there were some acknowledgment of their years served in the profession already?

    I like th car analogy, but people have to practice to be able to drive....they would not be able to just take an exam, submit examples of what to do in soem scenarios and be able to drive, thye would still rely on their experience at practicing.

    Fyi , i am working towards cpp as well, but was just throwing out some thoughts on cpp and what the state of thw industry is in.
    And how are they not letting them rely on their experience to practise for the exam currently? I don't understand what it is that you want. Your posts are sounding like you feel if someone has years of experience, that should be enough and they shouldn't have to take the test or submit work. It sounds like you want a CPP pin that has an extra little dangly showing how many years they have been certified? Most people who are interested in that kind of recognition have gone on past CPP to the degree program. Giving them another little pin is probably not going to motivate anyone. It certainly would not encourage me to get certified again. If someone truly is talented and gifted they probably already have plenty of awards and recognition and don't need some extra designation to motivate them. FWIW I believe you can get special endorsements to the CPP designation, like senior photographer, wedding photographer etc. But you still have to submit images to do that.

    Keith
    Keith A. Howe
    M.Photog.,M.Artist, Cr.,D.F.Ph.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    Suzanne,
    a lot of folks want that CPP after their name. There is a ton of folks who want to just do the bare min, and get those letters. If you want those letters, you submit your images, and then you take a test, or vice versa. Even being a master photographer does not give you that credential.

    Now, when I enter my state, they require a portfolio review to help identify those are are professional, and those who aspire to be professional. My state accepts either a CPP or a M.Photog as proof you are professional.

    Specifically what are you looking to have the commission take into account, and which step would it elieminate for you?

    Maybe I dont get what you are saying, and I do want to hear your response.
    Jeff
    Jeff Dachowski M.Photog Cr.CPP A.C.ph
    PPA Approved Juror
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  4. #14
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    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_Levesque View Post
    they can simply be "pretty pictures" as opposed to client work.
    Nothing "simple" about pretty pictures. It has been way more difficult to create loan quality illustrative work then it ever was to do the same with portraits or weddings for me.

    Keith
    Keith A. Howe
    M.Photog.,M.Artist, Cr.,D.F.Ph.

  5. #15

    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith_A_Howe View Post
    Nothing "simple" about pretty pictures. It has been way more difficult to create loan quality illustrative work then it ever was to do the same with portraits or weddings for me.

    Keith
    I think it has been easier for you once you found a poor little bunny's foot...
    Jeff
    Jeff Dachowski M.Photog Cr.CPP A.C.ph
    PPA Approved Juror
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  6. #16
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    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    Not sure i would eliminate anything, i am inspired to work on cpp due the fact that it is an internationally recognized certifying body, but i think i would add in a resume type of option where during certification, a photographer could have the option to list their career so far in photography.

    Possibly what concerns me about professional photography is that we are all in our own corners like little cliques, we are all seperate camps of photographers in the industry in different corners complaining about the plight of the industry, yet we do not attempt to unite as a collective group of professionals, acknowledging that one's experience in this industry can all be different and relevant in differrent ways.

    Is a new photographer to the industry who is great at exams, and has a good eye and passes submission with coaching help on what types of images to submit, the same as a photographer who passes the exam, passes image submission but also has over 10 years of business, shooting and client experience? Or is there room to acknowlegde that it does take experience to claim you are a professional photographer?

    I really hope that i have not caused any ill feelings here, i just really love this profession and only want to see photographers start to work together on making the industry better collectively. Open dialogue is a great way for me to learn more about the ins and outs of what cpp is and what it means to the profession. Who knows i may make a few non beleivers change their tune and set their issues aside. The more professional shooters we have as cpp is only going to benefit the industry.
    Suzanne Bird, CPP
    Ontario CPP Liason

    Photography unleashed!
    suebird@urbandogphotog.ca
    613 296 4658

  7. #17

    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    Quote Originally Posted by urbandogphotog View Post
    Is a new photographer to the industry who is great at exams, and has a good eye and passes submission with coaching help on what types of images to submit, the same as a photographer who passes the exam, passes image submission but also has over 10 years of business, shooting and client experience? Or is there room to acknowlegde that it does take experience to claim you are a professional photographer?

    .
    Suzanne,
    I dont think anyones feathers are fuffled here.

    To answer your question above, there is nothing but what you put into it that will seperate you from your competition. If you choose to say cpp, and nothing else, then you client will apply the same weight to you that you do. If you present it to them as a benefit, they will certainly see it that way.

    It does not take experience to be a CPP. It only requires that you have had 20 paying clients. Many of the applicants do not even have that. There are no self assignments allowed, and photographing a flower outside of a winery is not a commercial job...well unless they really did hire you to come to the winery and photograph that flower.

    FWIW, you can take the CPA exam with no experience, and in some states the Bar Exam without going to college.
    Jeff
    Jeff Dachowski M.Photog Cr.CPP A.C.ph
    PPA Approved Juror
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  8. #18
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    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    Okay good, ruffled feathers is not my intention,
    Suzanne Bird, CPP
    Ontario CPP Liason

    Photography unleashed!
    suebird@urbandogphotog.ca
    613 296 4658

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    Nothing "simple" about pretty pictures. It has been way more difficult to create loan quality illustrative work then it ever was to do the same with portraits or weddings for me.
    All I meant to say, Keith, was that the images submitted for the Masters degree do not have to be portrait or client work; they can be any sort of merit-worthy image. I was trying to clarify Greg's comment that you can become a master without creating a single portrait, which Suzanne misinterpreted to mean that you could become a master without creating a single photograph. Not that it's "simple" to do.
    Mark Levesque, CPP, M. Photog., Cr. Photog, A.C. Ph., CPP Liaison, PPCC Judge

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Acknowledgment of prior professional work

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_Dachowski View Post
    Now, when I enter my state, they require a portfolio review to help identify those are are professional, and those who aspire to be professional. My state accepts either a CPP or a M.Photog as proof you are professional.
    Wow Jeff, this truly impresses me. I like your state a little more now.
    Greg Yager CPP


    "Be prepared to lose anything you are not willing to share" - me

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