8X10 Competition
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  1. #1
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    Aug 2005
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    Default 8X10 Competition

    I'm a member of the Wedding & Portrait Photographers International as well as PPofA, as I'm sure many other PPoA members are.

    What do you think about the WPPI's 8X10 Print Competition? Wouldn't this resolve the problem about the bright competition lighting that the PPoA has. I've sat in judging rooms and from the audience area a 16X20 print doesn't look that big so there is no advantage to having larger prints in terms of the perspective of those not judging.

    As far as print displays are concerned, quite often the conditions for the display of 16X20s are not ideal, particularly when the prints are so dark. Couldn't some sort of technological fix for print display be found, say on high definition monitors after the prints are digitally captured by a scanner?

    If you want to see how beautiful a photographer's work really is the best place seems to be when there are prints displayed during the photographer's program. They are often larger than 16X20 and printed as they would normally be printed.
    Last edited by John_Earl; 08-11-2005 at 03:07 PM.

  2. #2
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    Aug 2005
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    Palmyra, Pennsylvania
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    Default I will disagree

    I disagree ... print competition prints help show clients what a well printed image looks like. And 8"x10" is a table size portrait. All of us want to sell wall sizes. So even if 16"x20" is a small size, it helps us get clients to order bigger sizes. As for viewing a competition ... when you view prints on the display racks you see them under room light. In the competition room, the viewing conditions are for the judges and not for anyone watching. I've been a print judge twice and think the viewing rules are fine as they are.

    Craig Flory

  3. #3
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    Tuscaloosa, Alabama
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    Default WPPI Competition

    A WPPI representative sent me the following description of their 8X10 competition:

    The WPPI 8x10's are a much more photographer-friendly atmosphere than 16x20 judging. The judges sit at the same table as the print is displayed and are permitted to pick up the print if they choose to. (As long as they don't look at the back - which would reveal the photographer's name.)

    Now - here is the really great part: We have the halogen lights in the room. The judges can ask that both the halogen lights be turned out and only office lighting remains
    - or -
    - the lights can be moved around -
    - or -
    one can be turned off and one left on, etc.

    Whatever any of the judges feel would show off a print better - they can request. How cool is that? So yes, the prints do not have to be too dark. Just make sure that detail is not lost by lightening the print during the print process. You don't want to lose detail.

    Sounds interesting!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    224

    Default Viewing Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by D. Craig Flory
    I disagree ... print competition prints help show clients what a well printed image looks like. And 8"x10" is a table size portrait. All of us want to sell wall sizes. So even if 16"x20" is a small size, it helps us get clients to order bigger sizes. As for viewing a competition ... when you view prints on the display racks you see them under room light. In the competition room, the viewing conditions are for the judges and not for anyone watching. I've been a print judge twice and think the viewing rules are fine as they are.

    Craig Flory
    Hi Craig,

    I noticed the term "viewing rules" mentioned and was wondering what those rules are. I've sat through a few state print competitions and observed the seating and lighting arrangement for the judges. However, I've also seen quite often, judges get out of their seats and go right up to the print to view it very closely. Is this something that happens frequently?

    Just Curious,

    Robin
    Robin Arkenberg
    Robin's Photography

    robin@RobinsPhotography.com
    Louisville, KY

  5. Default Viewing rules

    Robin,
    The "viewing rules" are really specifications for the judging setup and the protocol for challenges of the score the image receives. The Jury Chairman's manual gives diagrams for all competitions conducted by the Photographic Exhibitions Committee. You can download this manual from the PPA website. It is found under the Photographic Exhibitions Committee area. Judges may view image at close distance if there is anything feel needs to be looked at closer. Size of the image may demand the viewer to examine it closer or there may be some question about retouching, artwork or detail the juror needs to answer before scoring.
    Protocol dictates that a score must be given before comments may be made about the image. Comments are begun by a juror or Jury Chairman challenging the score given. The challenger speaks first and then each juror speaks in turn moving to the right until it comes back to the challenger who gets a rebuttal to the comments made by the other jurors. Each juror may only challenge an image once during the scoring phase. The images receiving scores of 81-78 are automatically challenged and brought back before the panel for a rejudging called the "ins and outs" or thumb vote. An 80% vote of the panel is required to raise the score (78-79 images) or lower the score (81-80 images).
    The judging method is the fairest possible. An image is judged by six jurors (5 + an alternate) and a jury chairman, all of whom can challenge the results (possible total of 7 challenges). If more than one panel is operating at the time a juror has the right to ask that the print be sent to another paner for their opinion. Contrary to popular opinion, the judges do want those entering to succeed, however the standard must not be comprimised as the merits received are for the Master's degree.
    Hope this helps,
    Buddy Stewart
    PEC Vice-chairman

  6. Default Viewing rules

    Robin,
    The "viewing rules" are really specifications for the judging setup and the protocol for challenges of the score the image receives. The Jury Chairman's manual gives diagrams for all competitions conducted by the Photographic Exhibitions Committee. You can download this manual from the PPA website. It is found under the Photographic Exhibitions Committee area. Judges may view image at close distance if there is anything feel needs to be looked at closer. Size of the image may demand the viewer to examine it closer or there may be some question about retouching, artwork or detail the juror needs to answer before scoring.
    Protocol dictates that a score must be given before comments may be made about the image. Comments are begun by a juror or Jury Chairman challenging the score given. The challenger speaks first and then each juror speaks in turn moving to the right until it comes back to the challenger who gets a rebuttal to the comments made by the other jurors. Each juror may only challenge an image once during the scoring phase. The images receiving scores of 81-78 are automatically challenged and brought back before the panel for a rejudging called the "ins and outs" or thumb vote. An 80% vote of the panel is required to raise the score (78-79 images) or lower the score (81-80 images).
    The judging method is the fairest possible. An image is judged by six jurors (5 + an alternate) and a jury chairman, all of whom can challenge the results (possible total of 7 challenges). If more than one panel is operating at the time a juror has the right to ask that the print be sent to another paner for their opinion. Contrary to popular opinion, the judges do want those entering to succeed, however the standard must not be comprimised as the merits received are for the Master's degree.
    Hope this helps,
    Buddy Stewart
    PEC Vice-chairman

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Louisville, KY
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    Default Viewing Rules

    Thanks Buddy,

    I appreciate that. It has bothered me for some time now.

    Robin
    Robin Arkenberg
    Robin's Photography

    robin@RobinsPhotography.com
    Louisville, KY

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Palmyra, Pennsylvania
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    9,214

    Default Not always 5 ......

    There are not always 5 judges and not always 16" X 20"s. In our Pa. state group we have a competition every October meeting of 8" x 10" s ... of images showing our state. Not only are they 8" X 10"s but there are only 3 judges. I've been a judge twice at the Northeast Pa. Prof. Photogs. group and there are only 3 judges there also. The big problem with 5 judges is that each score counts one third instead of 20%.

    It was mentioned about judges going up close to look at an image. That is usually to check sharpness and also usually after a challenge of the score. Sometimes it's also to see if artwork is noticeable.

    D. Craig Flory PPA Certified

  9. Default There are not always 5

    Craig,
    As I stated in the previous post "The Jury Chairman's manual gives diagrams for all competitions " there should always be 5 jurors and an alternate. Should an emergency arise (sickness, weather or some other reason) the jury chairman may use their discretion to work with less jurors on a panel. Many state and local guilds use other arrangements and do not come under the auspices of the Photographic Exhibitions Committee. This is perfectly alright as the results do not apply to the merit program which earns the Master of Photography, Master of Electronic Imaging or master Artist degrees.
    PEC does feel however that the closer judgings are conducted to the PEC standard the better success those desiring to achieve merit status for a print will have. In my opinion one of the reasons that so many don't understand or are afraid of the judging process is that the same procedures and protocol standard are not used at all levels.
    Pennsylvania has a very good system for promoting competition. I wish other states had the same.
    Keep Grinnin',
    Buddy

  10. #10
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    Tuscaloosa, Alabama
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    Default

    Of course I've always maintained that the lighting for print competition is too bright. By having 8X10s judged this apparently needed brighter lighting would be mitigated.

    But, to throw out an idea... why not have a preliminary judging with 8X10s? The cost of producing 16X20 prints for competition is tremendous. If non-competitive prints were eliminated by the screening process of a first-stage 8X10 competition only 16X20s with a chance of hanging would be produced for judging.

    Many labs have a service for printing competition prints. These prints are really not suitable for display in most homes. They look murky and dark. I would hope that any customer buying a print that was in a competition would be getting a duplicate print that was printed for "normal" viewing circumstances. And hopefully one that was larger than 16X20!
    Last edited by John_Earl; 10-10-2005 at 07:50 PM.
    Photography by Earl
    www.photographybyearl.net

    Tuscaloosa, Alabama

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