Another Stupid Question on Mounting
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  1. #1

    Default Another Stupid Question on Mounting

    You'll have to forgive me on this one, I have not even seen a mounted picture for a print compettition, so I am virtually going into this blind.

    A.) The Picture must be mounted on a 16x20 Mount Board, I get that part. I guess there is another size too, but I am not worried about that right now.

    B.) I get that you can be creative on the positioning of your picture on the board, IE, more top left Corner, Bottom right corner ect if you have a smaller than 16x20 picture.

    Q1.) I could even if my picture is less than 16x20 have a 16x20 Print made, position the actual picture and any border I want on the 16x20 surface as I desired and have thaat mounted to a board or I could have a picture something less than 16x20 in size, with a border and some amount of space outside that boarder but all still not totaling 16x20 and mount it somewhere on the board?

    Are either of those valid options or is one or the other not and what are your thoughts if both are allowed on one verses the other. I was thinking that if its a full 16x20 print that finger prints might end up showing from handling when the actual judging is done. I am also somewhat less than thrilled with the way pictures less than 16x20 will have to be managed within the space, IE, there being more black space on one set of sides than on the other set. Maybe thats why some opt for a corner location to minimize that.

    Help is appreciated! Sorry for the sloppy typing, late to a meeting already! :-)
    Mark Abraham
    Fine Art and Portraiture
    Now and Forever Photography
    http://www.nafphotography.com
    Mark@NowAndForeverPhotography.com

  2. #2

    Default What competition are you looking at?

    Assuming you're talking about PPofA competitions, I believe you image cannot be double mounted. The 16x20 requirement is a single piece mounting, no mattes. If your image area is less than 16x20, then digitally put the image within a 16x20 canvas. I had a red stroke around my 11x14 images with a sepia or black background.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    -Assoc. degree, commercial photography
    -Certified Professional Photographer
    BLOG

  3. #3

    Default Thanks! 1 more ?

    Is it frowned upon to have a 10x15 image in a 16x20 Space with unequal distance around the edges? IE, do the judges just consider space beyond the image as irrelevant if its blank?

    Thanks!
    Mark Abraham
    Fine Art and Portraiture
    Now and Forever Photography
    http://www.nafphotography.com
    Mark@NowAndForeverPhotography.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Palmyra, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    9,214

    Default Print Competition ...

    Hi Mark;

    First of all, you will be required to use an approved print case to ship your entries. You are correct ... the overall size of the presentation is 16" X 20" or 20" X 16". Thickness is to be between 1/8th & 3/8th inches. I'm attaching a .pdf of the print rules ... read all carefully.

    I recommend that you buy one of the PPA Loan Collection Books to study what has worked for others. You can find a number of years collections available from Marathon Press.

    You need to pay close attention to composition and the rule of thirds. It also helps if you know the "Dirty Dozen" of print competition. I'm attaching the list also.

    I'm sure you will get lots of tips. I would like to see you enter a competition in your state assn. or a sub-state group first before paying to enter the PPA competition. It helps if you get your feet wet at a lesser competition before moving on to the big one. Good luck;

    D. Craig Flory PPA Certified, Cr.Photog., ASP
    floryphotog@mindspring.com
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. Default

    Wilson says <I believe you image cannot be double mounted> Actually it can be multiple mounted (I have had an image with 8 layers). With electronic printing it just isn't done much anymore because it isn't necessary to achieve the same presentation. In PPA competitions ALL non masters must enter a 16x20 inch presentation. IMO this allows for a great deal of creativity in the presentation as opposed to a flush mounted image. It allows the use of the 16x20 space to creatively present a smaller image and add a great deal of impact to an image that, if flush mounted would not have much. Composition and thus impact is improved by the use of positioning on the area and the use of accent lines (some call this step mounting) to provide excitement and strenghjten the image. You will see images which are different sizes which are entered by members holding the master's degree in that competition. Those images must have at least 80 square inches of presentation not to exceed 480 square inches of presentation with no side longer than 24 inches. The rules also state that no substance that will do harm to any other entry is to be used. It was thought at one time that cut mats would cause harm but those are legal now. Also no entry may be mounted on masonite or on a stretcher frame. Download the current rules from the PPA site (found under the competitions area) and read through them to get a little better idea of what is accepted. Try to view/enter/work on a print crew the next competition in your area. When I first started (early 70s) I learned as much from print competition as from many programs.
    Buddy Stewart, PEC vice chairman

  6. #6

    Default Thanks - Much clearer now!

    Thanks for everyones help. I think I understand it all now. I have the images I want and believe I have them tuned and croped to deal with most of the Dirty Dozen. the 1/12 that still bothers me a little is the presentation and mounting. I understand it all, however do to the odd sizes I will need to think about all this more. Too bad the black area is just not considered dead space, I do understand though that rules are rules and that if they are merited in the judging then one ought not to ignore them less they wish to suffer the consequences.

    Alas, I will think on it more, maybe even skip this year and try something more local. Too bad I am licked by the mounting right now.
    Mark Abraham
    Fine Art and Portraiture
    Now and Forever Photography
    http://www.nafphotography.com
    Mark@NowAndForeverPhotography.com

  7. #7

    Default I've never seen that!

    Buddy, I've never seen a three-dimensional mount at any competition...only flush mounted images. Are you talking about years ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy Stewart
    Wilson says <I believe you image cannot be double mounted> Actually it can be multiple mounted (I have had an image with 8 layers). With electronic printing it just isn't done much anymore because it isn't necessary to achieve the same presentation. In PPA competitions ALL non masters must enter a 16x20 inch presentation. IMO this allows for a great deal of creativity in the presentation as opposed to a flush mounted image. It allows the use of the 16x20 space to creatively present a smaller image and add a great deal of impact to an image that, if flush mounted would not have much. Composition and thus impact is improved by the use of positioning on the area and the use of accent lines (some call this step mounting) to provide excitement and strenghjten the image. You will see images which are different sizes which are entered by members holding the master's degree in that competition. Those images must have at least 80 square inches of presentation not to exceed 480 square inches of presentation with no side longer than 24 inches. The rules also state that no substance that will do harm to any other entry is to be used. It was thought at one time that cut mats would cause harm but those are legal now. Also no entry may be mounted on masonite or on a stretcher frame. Download the current rules from the PPA site (found under the competitions area) and read through them to get a little better idea of what is accepted. Try to view/enter/work on a print crew the next competition in your area. When I first started (early 70s) I learned as much from print competition as from many programs.
    Buddy Stewart, PEC vice chairman
    -Assoc. degree, commercial photography
    -Certified Professional Photographer
    BLOG

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Hudson, NH
    Posts
    6,047

    Default

    Mark-

    What is it that concerns you about the mounting? When you have your lab make your prints, simply instruct them to mount them for competition. End of story. You need never get near a heat press.
    Mark Levesque, CPP, M. Photog., Cr. Photog, A.C. Ph., CPP Liaison, PPCC Judge

  9. Default

    Wilson asked <Buddy, I've never seen a three-dimensional mount at any competition...only flush mounted images. Are you talking about years ago?> I don't see many but a matted entry is an acceptable entry. Most don't use them because of cost or difficulty of production. Today the presentation for most is done on the single piece of paper with the print.
    Buddy Stewart, PEC vice chairmen

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Palmyra, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    9,214

    Default For Mark Abraham

    Hi Mark;

    Keep something in mind ... not every image has all of the dirty dozen. And the 12 are not weighted equally. Some are much more important than others. Nothing will beat experience. Beides going through it and seeing how you do ... two things will really help you.

    #1 Sitting and watching an open print judging. Here in Pennsylvania, it is very popular to sit and watch the judges view, and score, the images. I think it is an excellent way to learn. National judging is only a thumbs up or down situation and you don't get scores. So you have no idea how close you were. So a state, or lower, competition is good in that you get a score and can see how close you are to the coveted 80.

    #2 Go to the print critique. The print critique is also popular. You can have your images critiqued to see where you could have done better.

    Once you get your 1st ribbon you will be hooked.

    As was pointed out ... the labs know what the competition thickness is to be. But, if you are worried about it ... PPA used to sell a small metal square thing ... with two slots cut in it. The one is the minimum thickness and the other is the maximum. If it won't fit in the minimum, and will fit in the maximum, you are ok. It was $10.00 ... I don't know if it is still sold and, if so, how much it is now. I don't worry about it. I just have my lab mount on 3/16th black-core gatorfoam. That's in between the 1/8th minimum and 3/8th maximum so nothing to worry about. I do NOT recommend using regular mount board. It tends to bow and not stay perfectly straight.

    Good luck ...

    D. Craig Flory PPA Certified, Cr.Photog., C.P.P. Liaison, ASP
    floryphotog@mindspring.com

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