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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    South Bend, IN
    Posts
    253

    Default Local vs International -- Wow!

    In Tampa, I sat with three judges and went over more than a dozen images, both photos and EI. (Thank you, judges, for the time you spent with me!) Just got back from State (PP-Indiana). A number of the changes I made at the suggestion of the judges participating in the mentoring session at ImagingUSA were **specifically** noted as flaws by state-level judges. In addition, two judges (state level) contradicted each other quite directly on three of four prints. (All scored high enough to hang, so there was ample opportunity to review with the state-level judges after the print competition.)

    This experience leads me to a pair of conclusions:
    1) Judges are individuals, each with her or his baseline point of view and expectations.
    2) A print that meets all judges expectations at all levels truly deserves the score it achieves.

    Let's add one more "lesson learned" to this list:
    3) Keep on competing, have no ego involved, just strive to create better images, both for competition and for our clients (although the prints we sell and those we submit for competition are often very different).

    Now about those decisions and selections for regional . . . .
    Pete
    Pete Bauer
    Author, Photoshop CS4 for Dummies
    Help Desk Director, NAPP

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    North Platte, NE
    Posts
    4,779

    Default

    Hi Peter
    This is why there is a panel of judges instead of just one. You will always have a high judge and a low judge, everyone sees things differently. You may have a judge that is very technical and sees faults in images that warm fuzzy judges don't see. I personally have been on a panel were cloning tracks were very noticable from the right side of the panel and not from the left side. So there were challanges about the story of the image being strong and not seeing any issue with print quality vs stong issues of print quality that wanted to keep the viewer from enjoying the image. As judges got up and walked around to view the image closer all could see both the pros and the cons of the image.

    Now for the differences between the state and national judges, besides the fact that we all are individuals there is the possibility (I do not know who the judges at state were) that some were not affiliated jurors but were speakers, masters or someone wanting to become an affiliated juror. Sometimes there is a difference of CC from a non affiliate juror vs an affiliate juror because of the level of experience.

    All of this is why I suggest getting several opinions and when you start to hear the same suggestions from more than one individual, then you can let them carry more weight in your decisions as a maker as to what kind of changes you may want to make. I file all the suggestions I get away in my mind and let them come out when I am photographing, thus competition makes my client work better.

    Ok I'm getting down off my soap box. Good Luck all.
    Keith
    Keith A. Howe
    M.Photog.,M.Artist, Cr.,D.F.Ph.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Palmyra, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,274

    Default Levels ...

    Hi Peter;

    You started a good thread. I have judged at the sub-state level where they only ask you to be certified. Our state requires all to be a Master. They also try to have as many of them to be an affiliate judge as well. So, as you move up the ladder the judges get to be more well versed in judging. For anyone who doesn't know ... they have a judging school and you also have to submit images to get affiliated judge status. (correct Keith ?) To put this all in perspective, I make comments and suggestions on here. Sometimes Kieth and Dave agree with me and sometimes they don't. I enjoy being corrected by them, and others, because I also keep learning.

    This is why I personally think it's so important to belong to the state and / or sub state groups. I just attended a two day program with Stewart and Susan Powers. I've belonged to my state group since 1978 and have seen them before. But, I always learn something new with each and every semimar we have. The same goes for competition. Each competition I enter I always attend the critique a day or two later. No matter what, the judges assessments of the prints helps me in some way.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    South Bend, IN
    Posts
    253

    Default

    One thing I have already decided about next year: I won't be speaking on the same day as judging -- I want to be in the room and listening/watching all day! This year at PPI the judging was Friday and I was speaking that evening from 7-10, so I had the choice of watching the judging or making sure my class was as good as it could possibly be. My audience, as always, won out.

    Best,
    Pete
    Pete Bauer
    Author, Photoshop CS4 for Dummies
    Help Desk Director, NAPP

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    North Platte, NE
    Posts
    4,779

    Default

    Peter
    If you really want to dive in, Take the making of a merit print (also known as the judging class) in Daytona in July during the international judging. You will have classes on composition, artwork, color harmoney, what judges look for, practice judging, practice at challangeing on an image as well as several times of sitting in on the actual judging rooms. It takes time away from your business but it will make you look at your work in camera in a whole different way.
    Keith
    Keith A. Howe
    M.Photog.,M.Artist, Cr.,D.F.Ph.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    South Bend, IN
    Posts
    253

    Default

    Indeed, I'm already planning on attending that class. And I hope to see a number of our colleagues from this forum there, as well!
    Pete
    Pete Bauer
    Author, Photoshop CS4 for Dummies
    Help Desk Director, NAPP

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    North Platte, NE
    Posts
    4,779

    Default

    Peter, I will be judging and Holly will be working print crew. I know Rick M. will be there working crew also. Anyone else going to be there?

    Keith
    Keith A. Howe
    M.Photog.,M.Artist, Cr.,D.F.Ph.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Petaluma, CA
    Posts
    4,149

    Default

    Leslie and I will be at the workshop. Our local association is paying for our tuition there. Plus, I have one state judging under my belt that that will expire in January if I don't take the workshop this year (I think there's a two year rule).
    Michael Gan,M.Photog.Cr. CPP,
    Meritage House of Photography

    If your business depends on you, you don't own a business-you have a job. And it's the worst job in the world because you're working for a lunatic... You can't close it when you want to, because if it's closed you don't get paid. You can't leave it when you want to, because if you leave there's nobody there to do the work. You can't sell it when you want to, because who wants to buy a job?
    —Michael Gerber
    http://www.meritageonmain.blogspot.com

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Gan View Post
    Plus, I have one state judging under my belt that that will expire in January if I don't take the workshop this year (I think there's a two year rule).
    Michael, how close are you from making the 25 merits?
    -Marc Benjamin, M. Photog. Cr. F-PPC
    marcbenjamin.com

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