Photographic Craftsman ... too easy to get? - Page 2
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    San Diego, Calif
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    5,846

    Default well....

    "some think that nowadays the degree doesn't really carry as much weight anymore since people are getting the speaker merits faster and easier than ever."

    I got my cr in the 80's, it took less than a year. Being on the speaking circuit kinda helped...it's no easier now than then, the trick is do folks want to hear what you have to say....I was lucky then, enough did. I'm sure they'll be a lot of folks that want to hear you....go for it.

  2. #12
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    Aug 2005
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    NH
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    2,205

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    One reason to have the gold/blue ribbon is that it matches more clothing outfits.

    --------------------

    Sandra,

    Valid points, thank you for sharing.

    --------------------

    The Master's degree is peer recognition (doesn't mean you've arrived!)
    The Craftsman degree is giving back/sharing what you've learned

    Each inidividual has to decide for themselves if degrees are important enough (to them) to work for.....
    Last edited by Don_Chick; 02-09-2008 at 03:37 PM.
    Don
    M.Photog., Cr., CPP, D.C.Ph.

    www.donchick.com

  3. #13

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    Marc,
    Just to clarify things. Speakers do not get speaker merits for their cont ed programs. They only get service merits.

    Jeff
    Jeff Dachowski M.Photog Cr.CPP A.C.ph
    PPA Approved Juror
    Upcoming events:



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    Avatar by 2008 Diamond photographer of the year-Don Chick

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    GA girl in Idaho Falls
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    1,553

    Default

    Crafstman was the hardest for me to get so far!!! I was terrified of speaking and it took every ounce of courage to do it. Since then I am a little less terrified and I have grown because of it!

    They don't understand what goes into a degree, nor do they care.
    It's up to us to educate them. Send in the press releases when you do well in print comp. Display your awards at your studio. And something that I will be doing soon is putting all this on my blog. I have one but have not used it to it's fullest potential.

    I have had clients ask me what all the letters after my name meant and they are interested. I've actually gotten a few commissions because they took the time to find out what it all meant.

    I know some doctors, educators and real estate agents that have more letters after their name than the entire alphabet!!! We're not the only ones!!!
    Cheri MacCallum
    CPP, M. Photog., M. Artist, MEI, Cr., GFD, Ph. Artist
    Painter Portraits for Pros and Fine Art Printing Services
    http://www.artbycheri.net/proserv.html
    www.artbycherifineart.net
    http://artbycheri.typepad.com/art_by_cheri/

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheri MacCallum View Post
    I was terrified of speaking and it took every ounce of courage to do it. Since then I am a little less terrified and I have grown because of it!
    Now that is probably one of the best things you can get from speaking. When I was doing career day seminars for the Boy Scouts Explorer program I would tell the kids to do some theatre or chorus or band or debate team or something in High School to prepare them for being in front of people. Because in most cases if your going to become a photographer, your going to be dealing with peole. Great point Cheri!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Petaluma, CA
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    My clients could care less. They don't understand that an 80 score is great. They wonder why you haven't scored higher, say 95, that they understand. They don't understand what goes into a degree, nor do they care.
    Didn't want to quote the whole thing and bloat this thread... where should I start?

    Ok, let's start with Sandra's. In an industry where the poverty level is higher than any other profession on this planet, all these "abbreviations" have a real place in our industry. I think a lot of points are missed, so here's my perspective.

    The degree to the public is a short term thing. Once they know about it, they just know and move on. They know you're "good" as long as you prove it to them (that's why it kinda erks me when someone markets their Masters for portrait clients, yet never hung a portrait in competition....but that's another thread )

    The degrees are a combination of personal excellence and giving back to the profession. This is a point that has slowly eroded in this industry. There were more Master Craftsman back in the older days where you were able to identify them, look up to them, and learn from them, than now-a-days. And it wasn't so dang expensive to learn from them then. Now, it's a "all about me" in that "I got it, now you're on your own", and the funny thing is, most of those Masters and Craftsmen have incredible stagnated work. Shows what selfishness can do to a person.

    The problem is, when people take the medallion and run, there becomes a short supply of photographic leaders. When the photographic leadership goes down, so does the decay of the industry, because, the newer photographers have no idea what is a higher standard!

    Think about this: Do you see the membership in your state, or "smaller" local affiliates declining? Typically there are two culprits, lack of photographic leadership, and internal politics (members who want to run the association on their own terms, instead of the mission statement of the organization). So, for the sake of this thread let's look at the former.

    Why do people, newbies, join a Pro photo association? Bottom line, to learn better photography. If you have very few, to no Masters or Craftsmen in your association, who can your members turn to on a monthly basis? If you're going to the meetings just for the social aspect, you're in the minority. Most of the older members do that, because they had the proper guidance early in their careers. But now, where Masters are scarce, and even more scarce at the meetings, the newer members have no where to go and ultimately see this as a waste of time.

    Michael B. made a great point, with programming. There are far too many photographers teaching the "basics". I never understood that concept in a Professional Association. Shouldn't you know how to work a camera before accepting money from a client? The key is to have programming that stimulates the Masters to come and learn something, and challenges the newbies at the same time!

    We have a group of 90 in our local affiliate. Here's an example of our programming since February of last year:

    "A Night with the Masters" Where we invited all of the known Masters of Photography in Northern California, members and non-members. We honored them, than had a special print competition of Masters only. Hanson Fong, M. Photog. Cr., keynote speaker.

    "An Evening with Lizbeth Guerina, M. Photog. Cr. F-ASP"

    Kevin Kubota, Cr., evening and two full day programs and workshop

    Fuzzy Duenkle, M. Photog. Cr. Evening and Full Day Seminar.

    Kirsti Malvre, Keynote for Night with the Masters (last month)

    Eddie Tapp, M. Photog. Cr. Evening and workshop (this month)

    Scheduled so far this year: Vicki, M. Photog. Cr. and Jed, Cr. Taufer, and we are in negotiations with Jay Stock, M. Photog. Cr. F-ASP, Char Crail, and members of ASMP on learning how to get published.

    In addition to PPA print style print competition each night with judges who are Masters (we have a pool of 11) would you go every month?

    Sometimes you have to give to your degree holders so that they will give. Our board of directors have now approved a grant for our Masters to be eligible to go to the judges workshop in Daytona each year. Now we will have judges who are trained for affiliate judging! This is the value of degree when there is something for the degree holders to receive.
    Last edited by Michael_Gan; 02-09-2008 at 04:41 PM.
    Michael Gan,M.Photog.Cr. CPP,
    Meritage House of Photography

    If your business depends on you, you don't own a business-you have a job. And it's the worst job in the world because you're working for a lunatic... You can't close it when you want to, because if it's closed you don't get paid. You can't leave it when you want to, because if you leave there's nobody there to do the work. You can't sell it when you want to, because who wants to buy a job?
    —Michael Gerber
    http://www.meritageonmain.blogspot.com

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Normal, Illinois
    Posts
    7,783

    Default

    Don:
    I think the Craftsman degree is important to the industry. It rewards people for sharing their knowledge with others.
    Michael:
    The degrees are a combination of personal excellence and giving back to the profession. This is a point that has slowly eroded in this industry.
    I'm absorbing this as the purpose of the Craftsman degree. It's not so much what you did to get it or a measure of how good you are as it is a recognition of what you've done for the profession.

    It's not a measure of accomplishment, it's a measure of service.
    --Elephants can swim...
    ...and very gracefully.
    Knowing that,
    I do believe
    Anything is possible for me.

    Kirk Darling, CPP

  8. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Gan View Post

    There are far too many photographers teaching the "basics". .

    Micheal,
    This is simply because of the lack of apprenticeship that has plagued our industry. We no longer work for the studio in town, cut our teeth and eventually go out on our own. Folks today, open,and then figure things out. There is such a serious need for basics!!

    Take a look at the portfolio of those who attend photo school, and have no ideas on exposure, form, composition etc. There are so many basic programs, because the market demands it. Every time you put forth an advanced idea, the class says that wouldn't work where I live becuase they still have not mastered the basics.

    Jeff
    Jeff Dachowski M.Photog Cr.CPP A.C.ph
    PPA Approved Juror
    Upcoming events:



    Photoshop 101
    Sacramento
    San Jose
    Seattle
    Portland
    Minneapolis
    Oklahoma City
    Washington DC


    www.DachowskiPhotography.com




    Avatar by 2008 Diamond photographer of the year-Don Chick

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Okeechobee, FL
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    487

    Default

    Michael,

    Just wanted to say thank you for explaining the problem better than I could.
    My guild is weak for that very reason. There has to be a reason to go to a meeting in our busy lives. I have been to Super Mondays when I would have been better off to stay home and work. I spent my money, took my time and was treated to someone counting merits. I am striving to learn, not promote a merit for someone. It appears that anyone can have a Super Monday. New photographers need guidance from experienced photographers. I have driven 5 hours to a workshop to have the speaker push their cd's and marketing plans. It is a big business. I am not even aware of total merits I have. I know competition merits but not all the others. I chair committees, serve on committees and basically do what I can to help our organization. The merits will come if you throw yourself into your profession. My goal is to help new people want to compete to better their work. It has made a hugh difference in my work in the last two years. It's recognition from your peers that understand good images from okay ones.

    Does learning how to pass the test make you a Master? No! They give crash courses for $500 to teach you to pass it. Some people test well, some don't. It is about the knowledge you possess that will make you a Master Photographer. I can study and pass, but am I a Master? Not Yet, but maybe one day I will be, if I work hard and learn my craft.

    Sandra

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Petaluma, CA
    Posts
    5,479

    Default

    Does learning how to pass the test make you a Master? No! They give crash courses for $500 to teach you to pass it. Some people test well, some don't. It is about the knowledge you possess that will make you a Master Photographer. I can study and pass, but am I a Master? Not Yet, but maybe one day I will be, if I work hard and learn my craft
    I think you might have the Masters Degree confused with the Certification. Certification is, probably, one of the most significant thing in the learning process of this profession. Jeff alluded to not enough basics being taught. How many other professions have a learn from the beginning while charging people for it? Even the plumbers and carpenters have to have a good solid apprenticeship before they start contracting (or, they're supposed to, anyway).

    Our affiliate has another basic premise: Make the evening programs challenging for all, including the Masters. Have "Night Schools (Marc's association calls it "4 nights"...or 3?... something like that) three times a month for an additional fee. We raise enough money from these night schools to pay for all our wonderful evening speakers!

    Here's another thing that is fundamentally changed from the norm. We realized that apprentices can stand to learn much more than our active professional members. They are like sponges, which are great! So, why do associations charge less for their annual membership? Have ever been annoyed when you have a world class speaker get interrupted by questions like "what f/stop are you using", or better yet, "What camera are you using?".

    Make the apprentices pay more for membership and make them work hard for active membership. Our apprentice (some groups call them "aspiring") pay $50 more for membership and they must attend a "Business 101" 2 day course, submit an ongoing portfolio of their work, volunteer for at least three committees, and get their business licenses within a year (or be dropped from membership). We limit this to 20% of the membership, so now there's a waiting list to get in. This 20% rule keeps our association from being a "camera club".

    There will be a more detailed information in an upcoming issue of PPA. Stay tuned.
    Michael Gan,M.Photog.Cr. CPP,
    Meritage House of Photography

    If your business depends on you, you don't own a business-you have a job. And it's the worst job in the world because you're working for a lunatic... You can't close it when you want to, because if it's closed you don't get paid. You can't leave it when you want to, because if you leave there's nobody there to do the work. You can't sell it when you want to, because who wants to buy a job?
    —Michael Gerber
    http://www.meritageonmain.blogspot.com

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