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Todd_Reichman
11-20-2007, 04:00 PM
Hello all,

I posted this in the Wedding Master's forum, but I wanted to post it here as well to see if anyone had a comment. I'm trying to commit to entering competition for the first time this year, and I'd really like to do so with wedding images.

I'm still not really sure what I should be posting, or whether anything I've ever shot is even appropriate for comp. So I've posted some shots in my member gallery - any comments or advice welcome:

http://ourppa.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=6036

Thanks

- Todd

Cheri_MacCallum
11-20-2007, 05:07 PM
Todd, I think it's a bad link!

Todd_Reichman
11-20-2007, 05:27 PM
oops.. thanks Cheri

http://ourppa.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=6036

Don_Nealious
11-20-2007, 09:32 PM
Todd,

I don't know about competition, but I like them a lot.

A question. Many of the images look llike there are designed for a two page layout. Am I wrong? Do your couple like to have lots of two pagers in their albums? I imagine it would increase the size as they add other images. Or is this all covered in your packages?

Todd_Reichman
11-20-2007, 11:48 PM
Todd,

I don't know about competition, but I like them a lot.

A question. Many of the images look llike there are designed for a two page layout. Am I wrong? Do your couple like to have lots of two pagers in their albums? I imagine it would increase the size as they add other images. Or is this all covered in your packages?

Thanks for posting a comment in my gallery, Don.

I do alot of 2-page image spreads in our albums. This is what we show to clients, and what they expect as such. Does the "layout look" detract from the images themselves? I tend to shoot almost everything horizontal, I guess because that's how my eye works. The majority of posted vertcle images are actually my wife's. Since the album is the primary wedding product, and where the money is, I definetly "shoot for album" on the wedding day.

We tend to sell alot 50-80 page albums, because all of our samples are in the 60+ page range. Most of the time, there are about 1-4 images per spread. I'm not sure about whether its covered in the package, but we do charge a per page, and not per image. Or books start at 20 pages, because that's the minimum allowed by our album company. Everyone adds pages.

thanks

- TRR

Anybody else have an opinion as far as images for competition?

http://ourppa.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=6036

Cheri_MacCallum
11-21-2007, 12:57 AM
I posted a few in the gallery as well. I enjoyed your images!

JohnHeckler
11-22-2007, 02:17 AM
Todd, GREAT images ... great vision. I'm probably not the best one to comment from a competition perspective, but I really like several of them and thing several would merit easily once prepared with appropriate presentations.

Todd_Reichman
11-22-2007, 03:00 AM
Thanks John,

I've been extremely apprehensive about both entering competition and posting images on this site. Honestly, I can't imagine ever meriting an image. People say that you should look at what is already hanging to get a sense of what the judges might be looking for. When I look at at the imags that merit, my work just doesn't look anything like that, and I start to wonder if I'm capable of doing what is necessary to merit.

Has anyone previsouly gotten insight from the judging process that helped them understand what to enter?

Thanks!

- Todd

Dave_Cisco
11-22-2007, 03:11 AM
When I look at at the imags that merit, my work just doesn't look anything like that, and I start to wonder if I'm capable of doing what is necessary to merit.

Has anyone previsouly gotten insight from the judging process that helped them understand what to enter?

Thanks!

- Todd

I went to every judging within a 300 mile radius for several years to learn as much as I could about the process. Actually, I learned to think of it as a(very expensive) game. Bottom line...learn the rules, play to win.

JohnHeckler
11-22-2007, 03:20 AM
Todd, hopefully some of the Masters will chime in with some critiques ... they have helped me immensely. I've only entered twice thus far, but have a total of 4 merits, 1 loan/fuji masterpiece, and a showcase to show for it so far and I owe alot of it to the feedback and comments I have receive here from Keith, Dave Cisco, Don Chick, and the list goes on ...

Todd_Reichman
11-22-2007, 03:50 AM
So, Dave - any insight on the rules?

Dave_Cisco
11-22-2007, 05:20 AM
So, Dave - any insight on the rules?

Hmmm, I didn't expect to get put on the spot that quickly...:) This is going to have to be the abbreviated version, because it almost time for me to turn into a turkey....
Ok, I was stumbling around trying to figure out how to explain this without talking jibberish, and it occurred to me to Google "12 points of print judging"....BAM! The first hit was to the PPA website, and here is the way I was taught 25 years ago.....this is the bottom line, probably always will be.

#1 Impact is the sense one gets upon viewing an image for the first time. Compelling images evoke laughter, sadness, anger, pride, wonder or another intense emotion.
#2 Creativity is the external expression of the imagination of the maker by using the medium to convey an idea, message or thought.
#3 Style is defined in a number of ways as it applies to a creative image. It might be defined by a specific genre or simply be recognizable as the characteristics of how a specific artist applies light to a subject. It can impact an image in a positive manner when the subject matter and the style are appropriate for each other, or it can have a negative effect when they are at odds.
#4 Composition is important to the design of an image, bringing all of the visual elements together in concert to express the purpose of the image. Proper composition holds the viewer in the image and prompts the viewer to look where the creator intends. Effective composition can be pleasing or disturbing, depending on the intent of the image maker.
#5 Print Presentation affects an image by giving it a finished look. The mats and borders used should support and enhance the image, not distract from it.
#6 Center of Interest is the point or points on the image where the maker wants the viewer to stop as they view the image. There can be primary and secondary centers of interest. Occasionally there will be no specific center of interest, when the entire scene collectively serves as the center of interest.
#7 Lighting—the use and control of light—refers to how dimension, shape and roundness are defined in an image. Whether the light applied to an image is manmade or natural, proper use of it should enhance an image.
#8 Subject Matter should always be appropriate to the story being told in an image.
#9 Color Balance supplies harmony to an image. An image in which the tones work together, effectively supporting the image, can enhance its emotional appeal. Color balance is not always harmonious and can be used to evoke diverse feelings for effect.
#10 Technical excellence is the print quality of the image itself as it is presented for viewing. Sharpness, exposure, printing, mounting and correct color all speak to the qualities of the physical print.
#11 Technique is the approach used to create the image. Printing, lighting, posing, film choice, paper selection and more are part of the technique applied to an image.
#12 Story Telling refers to the image’s ability to evoke imagination. One beautiful thing about art is that each viewer might collect his own message or read her own story in an image.

Read each of these carefully. They are all important. When you get to the point where you can look at your own work and unemotionally evaluate it against these elements, you'll be well on the road to your Masters..:)


Have a Safe and Happy Thanksgiving.

Cisco

Todd_Reichman
11-22-2007, 03:03 PM
As far as unemotionally evaluating, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that my work lacks in the areas of creativity, style, technical excellence, technique and probably lighting. Would you consider that to be a fair assessment?

Would anyone care to comment on these images with respect to where I;ve gone wrong with respect to the 12 points?

Thanks

http://ourppa.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=6036

- Todd

Dave_Cisco
11-22-2007, 04:37 PM
As far as unemotionally evaluating, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that my work lacks in the areas of creativity, style, technical excellence, technique and probably lighting. Would you consider that to be a fair assessment?

Would anyone care to comment on these images with respect to where I;ve gone wrong with respect to the 12 points?

Thanks

http://ourppa.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=6036

- Todd

Todd,
There are not many here who could give you a meaningful critique and it could take 5-10 minutes to put something together for each image. I recommend that you select a particular image and see if someone will comment on it specifically.:)

Todd_Reichman
11-22-2007, 04:49 PM
Sorry Dave,

I'm not necessarily looking for a full critique on all images. I'm really looking for a semi-informed opinion on whether any of the posted images might be appropriate, or if there is any particular element of the 12 points that I'm clearly not getting. Didn't mean to ask for any of our esteemed colleagues to work on a holiday!

- TRR

Dave_Cisco
11-22-2007, 05:10 PM
For starters........#09_Obrien_BandG_045(on page 2)

This would be my pick for the highest score. It has rich tones(may be slightly on the yellow side), pretty person, and good light. The title would have to make sense of the subject and location.
To me, the image has a number of problems which would hurt its score. Most obvious is the foliage blocking our view...next are tilted verticals...next(without some explanation) is her squared-off pose with peculiar handling of the bouquet.

Todd_Reichman
11-22-2007, 05:30 PM
Thanks Dave, just what I was looking for.

- TRR

Any other comments welcome as well.

Rick_Massarini
11-23-2007, 01:55 AM
The bride in the doorway has a look that I can really relate to - living in South Louisiana. It has that all too familiar "post-Katrina" look - dirty moldy looking walls, insulation on the floor of a gutted building - feels just a scene that I've photographed many times in the last couple of years - a bride returning to New Orleans for her wedding and wanting to have a few photographs made in what used to be her home - until a couple of years ago. By the way, my studio is in the New Orleans area - and yeah, we New Orleaneans have a very wierd sense of humor - it's how we've managed to cope with it all.

Rick_Massarini
11-23-2007, 02:41 AM
Additional to my last note - I'm making this suggestion just to prove how really strange we are down here in New Orleans... I really like the bride in the doorway - but then again, I have a different perspective than most -the downed insulation and ceiling material in the background, the unfinished walls with the nails showing, the unfinished look - so hey, just tack some kind of "Post-Katrina-Bride" name on it and send it in. It just might hang - with the right title !!!

Don_Chick
11-23-2007, 01:02 PM
Todd,

I looked at your images in the gallery and posted a comment on one of them.

Honestly, I think you're close with your skills to getting merits in competition.

The images in the gallery show a creative use of leading line, color harmony, interesting backgrounds, good use of foreground, middle ground, background in your images. I think with some finesse you'll be there soon. You may even have some images in your portfolio now that would do well.
What I think is holding back (from scoring 80+) some of the images posted is your lighting. You need more drama in your lighting. Flat light will hold back almost any image from meriting (not every image, but most!) Sometimes it might be as simple as turning the brides face away from the camera a bit to get a narrow light pattern on her face. Other times it might be finding a location with an overhang (to block the top light) and then positioning yourself (camera) to take advantage of the lighting.

When I work outside my "mantra" is Block overhead, create contrast...

Todd_Reichman
11-23-2007, 06:16 PM
Thanks Don, exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

- Todd