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DiannaAllen
08-18-2007, 10:11 PM
Since I'm new to competition I don't have a clue when to expect my case back. Would someone share this info with me? Thanks

Linda_Gregory
08-18-2007, 11:24 PM
In time (barely) to fill it for next year.

The cases are all returned after Imaging. Even if you don't have any merit prints that will be displayed, it's too complicated to send them out at different times.

Cindi_Penrod
08-19-2007, 12:40 AM
I'm new to print competitions too, but was told to have 2 cases because the National case likely won't be back before your state competition.

Mark_Levesque
08-19-2007, 12:58 AM
Oh! Thanks for that tidbit. I have a case to fill for PPANE, and really expected it to be back by the. Now I know to order another.

DiannaAllen
08-19-2007, 01:36 AM
You guys are so full of good news. Just what I need another expense.
Thanks

Don_Chick
08-19-2007, 02:35 AM
Oh! Thanks for that tidbit. I have a case to fill for PPANE, and really expected it to be back by the. Now I know to order another.

Mark,

Plan on it being back sometime in February or March. In time to fill it for NH!!!

andiegoodman
08-19-2007, 05:51 AM
I'm new to print competitions too, but was told to have 2 cases because the National case likely won't be back before your state competition.

Cindi, most definitely in your case since the FL convention is in August.

andiegoodman
08-19-2007, 05:53 AM
Oh! Thanks for that tidbit. I have a case to fill for PPANE, and really expected it to be back by the. Now I know to order another.

And soon, Mark. The print committee will not accept cases at the door so they MUST be shipped.

Just a reminder................:D..........and good luck.

Keith_A_Howe
08-19-2007, 04:41 PM
Just a suggestion for those of you who have to buy another case. Get a larger case for your second one - 20x24 or 24x30. Once you earn your Master's degree you can start entering other sizes and you probably will want a bigger case. Instead of having 2 16x20 cases, you might as well get a bigger case now and save a little cash in the future.
Keith

DiannaAllen
08-19-2007, 05:04 PM
In time (barely) to fill it for next year.

The cases are all returned after Imaging. Even if you don't have any merit prints that will be displayed, it's too complicated to send them out at different times.

How does Imaging work? Are all prints that merit displayed there or only LOAN prints? Is that another competition and Does one have to enter prints in that competition also or do merit prints from national automatically get entered? I know nothing about Imaging so forgive my ignorance.:o

Keith_A_Howe
08-19-2007, 05:41 PM
Dianna - Print competition takes place in July as you know. All images there are judged for merit and then for loan. If an image is selected either as a General collection (one merit) or Loan collection (two merits), it is exhibited at ImagingUSA (PPA annual conference) in January. There is no other judging to be in the exhibit at IUSA, that is what the judging in July is for. In the past, IUSA was held in July and judging took place in June. Since judging and exhibition were so close together, there wasn't this problem of the long time between when the prints were judged and then exhibited and then returned with the print cases. When IUSA was moved to Jan. attendence increased dramatically, so it was a good thing. I don't know for sure but I believe the choice was made to leave judging during the summer because the difficulty of getting 40 judges, plus print crew and staff to give up a week during the fall when everyone is so busy with senior portraits and family portraits. Also because most regionals happen during the first 3 or 4 months of the year, national judging follows in a timely fashion after regionals, not a lag of 6 months or so. As the judging usually takes place on a college campus - which is much cheaper facility than a hotel or convention center, it has to be in the summer when those facilities are available. Hope this answers some questions for you.

Keith

Barry_Hayes
08-28-2007, 05:09 AM
Actually I just got my case back Friday. No I didn't hang any prints this year (despite there being 3 80+ images from PPANE in it), but that aside I also got some disheartening news. First they wrecked a print but at least sent an apology (form of course), but also they sent a note saying I needed to use an "approved" print case or i would not get my prints back at all next year! Now I have been using this same case for at least ten years with no problem. It is a fibre print shipping case just like everybody elses, so what may I ask is an "approved" case? Are they trying to sell me one of their vanity PPA logo cases? So anybody have any ideas?

Barry Hayes

Marc_Benjamin
08-28-2007, 05:28 AM
It is a fibre print shipping case just like everybody elses, so what may I ask is an "approved" case? Are they trying to sell me one of their vanity PPA logo cases? So anybody have any ideas?
Barry Hayes


The vanity logo cases haven't been officially available since (probably earlier) 03. Can ya post up a pic of what your case looks like. They probably meant that your case is in pretty bad shape already thus needing a replacement.

Barry_Hayes
08-28-2007, 05:55 AM
OK, here it is. Ugly perhaps, but it does the job (rather like me actually). BTW, this case may be cursed. I used to ship it UPS withy no problem. Then one day they wanted a surcharge because the shipping case was not in a box for shipment! They didn't understand or accept that it IS a shipping case by itself. When I said it had always shipped without the surcharge, they said that had been a mistake! That's what brown did for me lately. Fortunately FEDEX ground is based more in reality. Anyway, this is the case in all it's glory. Somebody at PPA must need a raise.
And still the question is what then is an approved shipping case?

Barry Hayes

Marc_Benjamin
08-28-2007, 06:29 AM
OK, here it is. Ugly perhaps, but it does the job (rather like me actually). BTW, this case may be cursed. Anyway, this is the case in all it's glory. Somebody at PPA must need a raise.
And still the question is what then is an approved shipping case?

Barry Hayes

You know, it doesnt really look that bad but who knows those straps might not be as stable as they should. Anyways, perhaps it's time to part with the case since well your words cursed. Go get yourself a lucky case.

Here's mine:

http://www.kickstep.com/ppa/PPA_Case4.jpg

Approved and very lucky... I've gotten 2 4/4's back to back since I started two years ago.

Rick_Massarini
08-28-2007, 08:11 AM
[QUOTE=Barry Hayes;97731] First they wrecked a print

Barry,

Can you expound upon exactly what was damaged on your print??? When I left the judging in Daytona, the ony damaged prints that we had (other than a few slightly bent corners) were a few that had stuck to another print due to the lacquer not being dry before packing them for shipment - and yes, there are still a few people still spraying prints.

Also - could you please send me a copy of the note that you received regarding the print case. The 16x20 Fiberbilt case should be fine. It it is the same type of case that I use all the time, and the same type that I recommend to our members. The big thick padded cases are nice, but not required, and are more expensive to purchase and to ship. The main issue around print shipping cases is ease of packing and protection from damage in transit.

Auralee_Dallas
08-28-2007, 01:37 PM
That case looks just like mine and I have two of them. Also, when I looked at my critique video I could see that my prints were already pretty "worn" looking. I don't think the Fuji super high gloss paper holds up as well as having it laminated.
The surcharge thing. I've had that happen to me once and I just went to a different UPS location because I knew it didn't seem right. From now on though I think I'll do FedEx ground.

DiannaAllen
08-28-2007, 06:18 PM
It happened to me also... Got an additional invoice from UPS for $8.00 because it was not in the proper shipping BOX. The frustrating part is when I hand delivered it to UPS they told me it was fine like it was.

Barry_Hayes
08-28-2007, 07:27 PM
The funny part about the surcharge was their absolute refusal to understand that a print case IS a shipping case, and their insistence that the last ten years of no surcharge had been the result of some kind of scam on my part. At the time I was shipping prints to PPANE here in new england. To add insult to injury, at the awards banquet the print committee chair got up and made an announcement specifically saying NOT to use a box because it was too much work to unpack and warning us that boxed cases might not be accepted next time! Some day reality will rear it's ugly head and boy are some people going to be amazed.
In the meantime I use fedex ground. It's cheaper, the service is better, and the clerks were much nicer about this issue.
Barry Hayes

Linda_Gregory
08-28-2007, 07:30 PM
Barry,

One thing we've got to remember and try to work around is all those people working competition are volunteers. No pay, very little reward. We must work as best we can to make it easy for them.

If Fed Ex will do it and UPS won't, guess who I'll be using. I pay Fed Ex and UPS so I'll try to follow their rules but I don't pay print comp people and am willing to work harder to make it easier on them.

Barry_Hayes
08-28-2007, 08:57 PM
Rick here is the note I got about the case. Who knows, maybe it was an error. I've never seen any PPA description or specification about approved cases so who knows. The consensus here is that this case is fine.
Anyway, here is the damage to my print. I used no lacquer and the paper is Kodak metallic. Looks like abrasion to me. While I am annoyed, I realize that with the volume of prints involved somebody has to get hit with the damage stick and this year it was my turn. Such is life.
What does bother me is what I see as inconsistency in the judging itself. For several years now I have had prints receive blues at PPANE, my regional. I then send the prints in to national and they don't hang! Now you need to know that I am entering in EI and I understand that the seals given at PPANE do not count in EI competition. I know this ahead of time and like it or not I accept it. But one year I had two images score in the mid 90's, and one received a Gallery. Yet neither hung in EI! I can understand a print which may have needed a challenge to go blue, or was just barely and 80 dropping in score with a different panel, but to go from 94+ to unhung seems a bit of a drastic drop. It makes me wonder if the PPANE judges (nationally certified people like Helan Yancy & Don Emmerich) had brain cramps, or if there was something wrong with the panel at national level.
My work isn't trendy. I don't do pregnant women, little frogs, or anything with the name "Tuscany" in the title. It is Sci-fi inspired and mostly CGI stuff. I often start with a blank screen, and create an image entirely from my own internal vision. But I have faith in my work and I know it is well done high impact imagery. Look at my gallery and see for yourself.
I've looked at what is hanging and I see images with a sky dropped in, or birds composited on a beach and I am not overly impressed. I see that as basic photoshop work. Well done maybe, but still a basic digital move.
I've judged at state level and I have said in critique that in reality print competition is a game, and is also the most subjective objective job I can imagine. Yet I find this level of inconsistency difficult to deal with because I can't figure out a way to deal with it. To further confound things, I sent one of the reject 90's back a second time and it DID hang! Go figure!
I'm not going to start following the current fads and make images for the judges just to get another degree. I have faith in my work and I just know that some day when the saucers arrive from Antares I am going to sell a whole lot of wall decor to these tourists! In the meantime I guess I'll keep playing the game and hoping the judges "get it". Maybe if I do a pregnant robot in Tuscany....
End of rant. Sorry to digress so. Sour grapes? Maybe, but it does get discouraging. It isn't cheap to compete. Oh well, on we go.
Barry Hayes

Barry_Hayes
08-28-2007, 09:03 PM
Here is one more of the damage.

Barry Hayes

Michael_Gan
08-28-2007, 09:48 PM
Ha! That's nothing. You should have seen my 2 loan prints in 2005. Afer Imaging, they went to Korea, then again to imaging in 2006. The prints were coming off the mount board and there were several prominant slashes across the images.

Marc_Benjamin
08-28-2007, 09:55 PM
Dude Barry, that's hardly damage really. Seriously, you should go into the comp thinking that it's an entry and not expecting to get a usable print back.

Anyways, don't be so sad, my friends Western States (PPC sealed) perfect 100 this year did not go Loan. So as ridiculous as my "lucky case" comment may seem, luck truly is the 13th element in print comp. Trust me man, good vibes gets good results.

KirkDarling
08-28-2007, 11:16 PM
I'm still wondering, though, where the specifications for that "approved shipping case" are.

Maybe it's my military mindset, but I would never have written "approved shipping case" in official correspondence without having specifics to reference. It would just seem morally wrong to me.

Barry_Hayes
08-29-2007, 01:09 AM
If you read the main body of the note, it seems to make absolutely no sense. How will not returning prints allow members to save on the cost of an actual shipping case and lower shipping costs? What is an actual shipping case? This reminds me of instructions for a Japanese product poorly translated into english.
All I know is that this case, which I have been using for the past ten years or better is as near as I can tell a standard among print competition entrants. Print competition is expensive enough. If PPA is going to arbitrarily decide to require an "approved" case instead of the perfectly utilitarian ones we now use first they had better let us in on just what that is, and then as far as I am concerned they can pay for it.
Actually I just had a funny thought. What if the note I got was just put into the wrong case and all this fuss was for nothing?
As for the print damage, well fecal matter occurs sometimes. Like I said, this year it was just my turn. Stuff happens. Hopefully it occurred after it was judged, or if not, the judges didn't allow it to influence their scoring. One year at the national display I saw a print which I was sure was mislabeled (I knew the maker). Closer examination revealed that there were two prints stuck together and the title was from the one on the bottom! I've always considered national to be the end of the line in a print's life anyway just as a display print has a finite life span.
Now if only I could hang some prints!
Barry

Rick_Massarini
08-29-2007, 04:08 AM
At the International judging, we do our absolute best to assure that the prints are not damaged, but these prints do undergo a LOT of handling. Our jurors are some of the finest photographers in the world, and all of them have worked as print handlers at some point in their past so they are eminently aware of the fact that damage can occur, so they don't take off points for damaged prints, in fact, quite often I hear jurors in the critique rooms extending an apology to the makers of a damaged print, just in case it might have been damaged in handling at our judging. They are also aware, when sitting on a loan panel, that many of these prints have received "Seals of Approval" at an affiliated regional judging and have been handled (or even "manhandled") at at least one other competition before coming to the Int'l judging - so they expect that there might be a scratch or two on the print. They don't judge the print on the basis of a flawless surface, etc, they judge it on the strength of the image - scratches, etc. are ignored by the jurors.

At the Int'l judging, there are thousands of prints that make their way from being opened, numbered, sorted, shipped across country, run through a merit panel, then (hopefully) a loan panel, then to the critique rooms, then back to the sorting areas, then sorted, repacked, shipped across country again, unpacked and hung at the national convention, repacked, reshipped across country again, sorted again and repacked into their print cases for return to the maker. This is a LOT of handling and shipping, and, although we always handle prints with gloves, etc, during transit across country, prints can rub against other prints, etc and can become abraded. Protection can be provided by laminating or lacquering the print, but the surface of a raw uncoated print is very delicate and succeptible to being scratched - and we do see some raw uncoated prints submitted. Prints that have been entered into competition and especially those which have been exhibited internationally have a history, and are naturally a treasure to the maker. The volunteers who handle these prints every year, understand that, and we handle the prints like they are our very own, but sometimes prints do get damaged. If yours was damaged in handling, I extend to your our apology for the damage, but, as I said in my earlier note, the only prints that I knew of that were damaged were a few from Korea that were lacquered and had the lacquer stick to the adjacent print during shipping from the other side of the ocean.

I know that no one wants ther print returned to them damaged, but in retrospect, the true reward of print competition is not the return of an exhibited print in pristine condition (the image can always be reprinted for exhibition in your studio), but the exhibition merit, and what we have learned in producing that competition print.

Mark_Levesque
08-29-2007, 04:24 AM
Rick-

Have all of the cases with no loan prints been shipped back to their makers at this point?

Rick_Massarini
08-29-2007, 04:48 AM
I'm not involved with the opening of the cases or the return shipping - that job is handled by our PEC administrator, Jim Dingwell, in Nebraska. I handle the prints at the actual judging (in Daytona Beach this year) and at the National convention every year. Since some of our forum members have received their cases back, it looks like Jim has started returning some of the prints. The only print cases which would be returned right now would be those from members who had four non-accepted prints. If any print was accepted for exhibition in either the General Exhibit or the Loan Collection, the case would be held until after we hang them at Imaging 2008 in Tampa. So if you had a General Exhibit or Loan Collection print, don't look for your print case until sometime in late January or early February. And if you had a Loan print, you may never see it again as PPA will be retaining it for further exhibition. I have heard a rumor that the Professional Photographers of Korea may be exhibiting the entire PPA Loan Collection at the PP of Korea's National Convention next year. So if you have a Loan collection print, you can now boast that your work has been "Internationally" exhibited !!! Cool, eh !!!

KirkDarling
08-29-2007, 12:47 PM
How will not returning prints allow members to save on the cost of an actual shipping case and lower shipping costs?


I think they meant that if PPA does not pay to re-box prints that came in wrapped in plywood and duct tape, then the overall cost of PPA operations to the membership is lower.