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Betsy_Finn
02-19-2007, 12:02 AM
Sent these off today (2/23/07) -- This one got titled

"Listen! They're Home!"

JohnHeckler
02-19-2007, 02:16 AM
Hi Betsy,

As you know, I am by no means an expert or very knowledgeable when it comes to competition prints, but in my humble opinion, this does not have the impact to merit. Cats are fairly common subjects and I think this image lacks punch. I think it needs more light in the face/eyes. And it looks like just about every other cat picture, so I'm not sure it will fly in competition.

Will you be going to the Mid East convention in a couple weeks?

Sue_Ellen_Tuttle
02-19-2007, 03:48 AM
oh, Betsy, I could not resist...

Betsy_Finn
02-19-2007, 05:42 AM
John, yes I will be going to Dayton. I'm not going to make it there until the evening when print judging starts -- so hopefully my prints won't be judged until the second day :o

(the darkness etc is mainly because of my quick web-resize...that shouldn't be really an issue in my print).

Keith_A_Howe
02-20-2007, 02:55 PM
Betsy
"Morris" "Mouserrr" "de-Mouser"
I think your placement is excellant. Assuming this is sharp from nose to ears I do believe this is merit worthy. If you have not done so already, set your dodge tool to highlights at 12-15% and go over the cats fur especially on the shadow side. Then set the burn to shadows 4-5% and go back over the same areas. This really adds demension to the hair. Works wonders on portraits of women as well, kinda like when they go in for highlights.
Good Luck
Keith

D._Craig_Flory
02-20-2007, 03:19 PM
[QUOTE=Keith A. Howe;60828]Betsy
"Morris" "Mouserrr" "de-Mouser"
I think your placement is excellant.

Hi Keith;

I guess this is one of those times when having the subject on one of the quadrants isn't that important ? I'm posting it exactly as shown with my composition grid on top to show that it's inches lower than the 2nd quadrant. Could you please explain ?

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i93/DC47/CatCompositionGrid.jpg

Betsy_Finn
02-20-2007, 04:05 PM
Cool thanks Keith. Yup, this one is TACK sharp. I did lighten the dark areas -- didn't burn the shadows in though before ordering -- oh well. I think it pops pretty well as it was when I ordered it.

Craig -- I originally tried to find proper placement using thirds etc-- but absolutely couldn't place this without loosing part of my image. I ended up placing it 1" from the top and 1.25" from the left

Keith_A_Howe
02-22-2007, 05:06 AM
[QUOTE=Keith A. Howe;60828]Betsy
"Morris" "Mouserrr" "de-Mouser"
I think your placement is excellant.

Hi Keith;

I guess this is one of those times when having the subject on one of the quadrants isn't that important ? I'm posting it exactly as shown with my composition grid on top to show that it's inches lower than the 2nd quadrant. Could you please explain ?

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i93/DC47/CatCompositionGrid.jpg

Yes it is not perfectly in a quadrant. Yet it works well. The rule of thirds is a guide, it usually is pertty darn close but it doesn't mean that you can not give a little. It doesn't mean that you can not have a bulls eye (dead center) composition. It has to be what works best for the image. In this case, I could shrink the image to make it fit but it would lose the impact. You could choose a different quadrant and in my opinion it would lose impact because of the lighting direction and cats body. When you flip the image to try to make it fit the rule better, the body of the cat looks wrong if it is on the left side of the presentation and if it is on the Right side then the lighting pulls you out of the image.
The rules are good but they are a guide, the end result is what feels right when you are looking at the overall presention. The position from the top, bottom and sides of the image in relation to the presentation. This is one of the reasons that circle mats or presentations are not used as often. In this case I like the circle and I like the presentation.
I hope this helps explain why In some cases the image will work even when you don't follow the rules of composition or keys to the letter.
Keith

Betsy_Finn
02-22-2007, 03:14 PM
Update: I'm titling this one "Aloha!!"

Betsy_Finn
02-22-2007, 03:17 PM
Ok This one you might not be able to tell but there's a surfer in the wave on the right side.

Update: I'm going with "Fearless".

Betsy_Finn
02-22-2007, 03:18 PM
ok this one I'm pretty happy with the title, but I'll share it anyways...

"this little piggy..."

D._Craig_Flory
02-22-2007, 03:23 PM
Hi Betsy;

It would be a lot easier to view, and come up with titles, if the images were bigger than wallet size.

Betsy_Finn
02-22-2007, 03:47 PM
Sorry about that craig -- I know it's not the best :( but that's all I've got here at the moment. (not at main work comp)

D._Craig_Flory
02-22-2007, 03:52 PM
Hi Betsy;

Ok, how about "Hanging Ten" for the surfing image ? For the other one ... "Tropical Escape". Or ... "Snow Birds Destination".
I like "This Little Piggy" !

Betsy_Finn
02-22-2007, 08:23 PM
Thanks Craig :). I am staying away from the "snow" title because it will be rainy/warmer the week of the competition :o

Betsy_Finn
03-04-2007, 03:36 AM
Here's my results from Regionals (http://betsysphotography.com/blog/2007/03/betsy-finns-prints-receive-awards-at-regionals.html) :D :o

As I figured, there were some print quality issues, but overall my results were about what I expected (met my "satisfied" criteria -- not quite my "happy" criteria ;) )

D._Craig_Flory
03-04-2007, 02:46 PM
Hi Betsy;

That is a very nice write-up ! You should get some great mileage out of it.

Did you get to meet many photographers from Pennsylvania ? No matter what they told you about me, I deny it. ;)

DianeDavis
03-04-2007, 09:21 PM
Good Job Betsy.

And very good job to get them on your blog. Do a press release for your Newspaper(s) ASAP!!

Congratulations for stepping up.

Don_Chick
03-04-2007, 09:41 PM
Congratulatons Betsy!!! Now on to Nationals in a couple months...

Betsy_Finn
03-04-2007, 10:21 PM
Thanks guys :D :D

this time I'll have a little more time to prepare, eh! (regionals was a last-minute decision,...at least it felt like it!)

John Heckler & John Knowles, thanks for saying hi! It was nice to meet some ourppa members in person (Craig....no Penn. people that I remember specifically!)

JohnHeckler
03-05-2007, 04:12 AM
John Heckler & John Knowles, thanks for saying hi! It was nice to meet some ourppa members in person (Craig....no Penn. people that I remember specifically!)

Hey Betsy, it was great to meet you as well and congrats on an excellent showing, especially for the first time!

John_Knowles
03-05-2007, 12:26 PM
Betsy,

Nice to meet you too, and congrats on the images!

Dan_Leary
03-05-2007, 02:35 PM
Betsy,
I looked for you up there all weekend... where were you hiding? Congrats on your images. John H too... I was really tickled that "Family Resemblance" went blue. I thought that was a cute image.

JohnHeckler
03-05-2007, 11:04 PM
Betsy,
I looked for you up there all weekend... where were you hiding? Congrats on your images. John H too... I was really tickled that "Family Resemblance" went blue. I thought that was a cute image.

Hey Dan ... did I meet you? The whole conference was a blur at this point.

Yeah, to be honest, I was surprised that Family Resemblance ended up with a merit, especially how the judging was going at the time it turned.

Did you enter prints as well?

Dan_Leary
03-06-2007, 12:02 AM
John,
I think I posted once before how much I liked that print. I wasn't surprised at all that it went blue, but I was happy because it was different! It just had that impact to me... I was glad the judges felt the same. I think at the end of the day, it all comes down to images that stick with us long after we initially see them. That one sticks with a viewer.

Unfortunately, we didn't meet... I was hoping to meet you, Betsy and a few others but I think the weekend was a blur for all of us. I was checking name tags at the print exhibition but I didn't see anyone I recognized. Maybe next time.

I did enter prints. I went 4 for 4. I was expecting maybe 2/4 so I was tickled. My mentor went with me and I think he was more excited than I was! Honestly though, the highlight was seeing Beth get a perfect score and winning Photographer of the Year. I just can't speak highly enough of this lady. Her photographic skill is only second to her personality. Just a great person. If you ever get a chance to see her speak, do it. She epitomizes all that is good about our state association.

Overall, I had a great time... but I sure was glad to get home! Missed my baby!

JohnHeckler
03-06-2007, 12:10 AM
I did enter prints. I went 4 for 4. I was expecting maybe 2/4 so I was tickled.

Excellent Dan! That is awesome dude! Did you post the images here? I went to the judging all day Thurs and Fri and spent plenty of time in the print exhibition studying all of the images, so I know I at least saw them.

Yeah, Beth Forester is an amazing photog. I was really impressed with her 100 and was there while it was being judged. Everyone applauded and then they had to take a 10 minute break via the rules :-) It really was an amazing portrait. It was also done the year before (maybe not the exact same frame, but VERY close) and scored an 83. Obviously she improved it for the B&W that went 100 :-)

I ended up 3 of 4 blues, received the Fuji Master Peice award for the wedding category and Court of Honor for the Family Resemblance, so needless to say, I have been on cloud nine since. :-)

Will you post your images here if you haven't already or point me to the link if you already have? I want to see them. :-)

Dan_Leary
03-06-2007, 12:46 AM
John,
Sure thing! If you know what they said about any of these, please share! The only one I got to hear was the blonde girl. I knew I got 3/4 on Friday, but I enetered one that noone had seen before so they weren't looking for it. I had to wait until Saturday morning and go find it...

Renaissance Man-Scored 81.... on the original version of this I had a fiery background. It scored the same at state, but I won a Gallery Award for this at state. I just thought the black background looked better with the other changes they suggested.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/imageguy23/RenaissanceManReduxlr.jpg

Fire and Ice-Scored an 80
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/imageguy23/fireandiceReduxlr.jpg

Invincible-Scored an 80 ... this was one I had printed, but didn't enter at state. I just put it in my case because I wanted four prints. This was NOT a good print from WHCC.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/imageguy23/Invincible-LR.jpg

Even Blondes Get The Blues-Scored an 85... real proud of this one.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/imageguy23/EvenBlondesGetTheBlues-LR.jpg

As an aside, I won't be using WHCC for competition anymore... they don't correct density and they don't view the images under competition lighting. Also, the blacks look very VERY muddy. I truly think Invinvible and Blondes could've went a point or two higher with a better print job. I'm not upset with WHCC, but I just don't think they're the best for the job. This after four blues... but I plan on stepping it up a knotch next year.

JohnHeckler
03-06-2007, 01:13 AM
Those are great images Dan ... loads of creativity. I remember them all and even some of the judges comments ... I am putting the kids down and will come back to this and tell you what I remember them saying in a few ...

JohnHeckler
03-06-2007, 01:51 AM
Ok, here is what I remember ...

BTW, there were 2 judging rooms set up. They were side by side so you could kinda hear titles read in either room, especially if you were out in the hall by the entrance. This was a bummer for all the folks trying to wait until their prints turned as they kinda had to stand out in the hall an look into both rooms until their prints turned and then go in a listen to the judges. But what are ya gonna do. So, I didn't see some prints, but since I was volunteering, I was able to slide back and forth through a side door between the rooms to see as much as I could. Obvioulsy, I was mainly trying to hear my titles, but I did end up seeing Renaissance Man and Even Blondes Get the Blues.

Ok, so, from what I remember, Renaissance Man (which was somewhat a popluar title as I think I remember it on more than one print) was challenged and the judges did discuss it.

A side note: and some obviously already know this, but the judges don't really comment on prints unless they are challenged, so it is possible for a print to turn, get scored, and rotate off without any comments from the judges.

So, back to Renaissance Man ... it was challenged, and I can't remember it's initial score (ie whether it was a merit or not, but I think it may have received a 79 at first). Basically, the judges didn't get it at first, or at least some of them didn't. As they discussed it, they realized the digital to film play and thought it was clever and that is probably what got it over. I can't remember what one judge complained about, but after they discussed it and re-scored, it landed at an 81. Maybe someone else will remember more. There was probably some 1200 prints, so it's hard to remember all the details :-)

As for "Even Blondes Get the Blues", it got a little chuckle as the title was read, was scored and I think made a merit score right off, but was challenged immediately as one of them wanted to see it go to the excellent range. They all commented (forget most of those details, but one said she didn't look like she was actually playing the instrument, and another basically said so what), it was re-scored and plained out at an 85, a very nice score :-)

I *think* I saw Invisible, but am not for sure. If I did, then it turned, was scored, and move on. Or maybe I am remembering another one ...

JohnHeckler
03-06-2007, 01:58 AM
BTW, I am not sure I will use WHCC anymore for comp prints either. This is again, not really a slam on WHCC because I like them alot, but not for comp prints. They have a very affordable comp print price, but their comp print service and attention to details leaves a bit to be desired in my humble opinion.

I talked to them at their booth about it at the tradeshow and they said they would go back and discuss it. I talked about my specific issues I had with them and they kinda said (more or less) what do you expect for $27 a comp print. I said yeah, fine, I am willing to pay more for a better print and better service and suggested they offer two price points for comp prints and let the consumer decide. If they are going to be serious about printing comp prints, they need to do things like set up lights, offer custom adjustments, etc.

To their credit, they said they definitely want folks to do well in print comp and would look into it.

Dan_Leary
03-06-2007, 02:48 AM
John,
Wow, what a memory. Dude, I thought I had a freak memory. Yes, "Blondes" did go merit and then got bumped up a category... which was awesome. At states, we had a judge say she did not look like she was playing hard enough... and another judge said "So what, she's got the blues". One judge at states actually said "I don't get the blue tint" to which another judge replied "You've got to be kidding me." It was funny.

The funny thing about "Renaissance Man" is that I've had more than one person say "the guy with the things on his arms". It's called "film"... you know... that silver emulsion stuff once used to make photos with. I'd be willing to bet that two years ago that print would've scored off the chart. Just goes to show how far we've come and how quickly we forget.

From what I heard, "Invincible" was talked about for a long time... a couple of judges wanted it to bump up a category, but others had issues with the print quality. Again, this was a valid issue... but I'll take the merit anyways!

I have to admit, I almost didn't go... a friend of mine talked me into it... called me a sissy. I was expecting *maybe* 2/4. I had 4-79's and 2-78's at states last year... this was a good feeling.

Betsy_Finn
03-09-2007, 05:40 AM
Wow lots of posts since I've had time to read :o


Betsy,
I looked for you up there all weekend... where were you hiding? Congrats on your images. John H too... I was really tickled that "Family Resemblance" went blue. I thought that was a cute image.
Thx. No, not hiding, honest. I had to stay at one of the other hotels (only smoking rooms left when I tried to book the crowne plaza :( ) -- went to a few of the programs, the trade show, etc.... :p -- not hiding persay. But....I am short!! maybe that's why ...lol.

congrats to all you guys. ....have to say, i saw a number of familiar prints ;) being judged!

JohnHeckler
03-09-2007, 06:24 AM
... -- not hiding persay. But....I am short!! maybe that's why ...lol.



Uh, ummm ... after meeting Betsy, I can atest to the fact that she is indeed short :-P