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Bonita_Rice
12-15-2006, 05:47 PM
Why do you think that more ppa people are not using this forum? I have not been here in a while and I could not believe the small amount of use of this forum compared to other forums. My problems are about the login, but I did get logged in today. I really enjoy the information and the critique on the potential comp. prints. I would love to hear how the prints did in the competition after the critique here.

Betsy_Finn
12-15-2006, 07:00 PM
Well, the forum is still *relatively* new -- it takes a while for these things to get a good group dynamic going on a large scale. Even if you join a group, it may take you a while to get involved.

There are 7,395 members currenty (when I made this post) -- obviously not all are contributing, but I am sure that a significant number of those members are browsing the forum and getting info, even if they don't feel the desire to post.

We have 38 members online right now -- 31 members and 7 guests. (the most ever online users was 210 on 10-31-2006). That seems like pretty good statistics to me.

What type of forum membership levels were you hoping to see?

Don_Barnes
12-15-2006, 07:47 PM
Why do you think that more ppa people are not using this forum? I have not been here in a while and I could not believe the small amount of use of this forum compared to other forums.

You just admitted that you haven't been here in a while. So whatever your reason for not coming back might be, I am sure others have the same reason. And others have many other reasons. Personally, I would like to be so busy that I wouldn't have time to be here, but sadly that is not the case. I hope that is why many are not here now, but we will see them back when work slows down.

And for others they came and looked around and didn't find anything that interested them. Or they read a few posts and didn't get much out of them. Every forum has its regulars and those that drop in occasionally and every one that visits a forum has their own interests and desires for information.

I hope that you will visit regularly and if this forum is not meeting you needs, please tell us how to change it so that it does. This is YOUR forum and your input is vital.

Michael_Gan
12-16-2006, 12:24 AM
Added to the fact that most photographers consider themselves as either "know it alls" or, and this is unfortunately "takers but not sharers".
Michael

Ariston_Collander
12-16-2006, 12:36 AM
I know for a fact that I have a metric TON to learn about photography and the business of it. I use the Nikonians.org forum for camera specific information, but you can be sure to find me here many times a day either reading old posts or making posts myself. People who don't visit these forums are surely missing out.

I love the photo of my son as my avatar, but I need to find a nice pic of myself to use as my avatar.

Ariston_Collander
12-16-2006, 12:40 AM
I know for a fact that I have a metric TON to learn about photography and the business of it. I use the Nikonians.org forum for camera specific information, but you can be sure to find me here many times a day either reading old posts or making posts myself. People who don't visit these forums are surely missing out.

I love the photo of my son as my avatar, but I need to find a nice pic of myself to use as my avatar.

Well it's low quality, but I found one! :)

KirkDarling
12-16-2006, 01:39 AM
Why do you think that more ppa people are not using this forum? I have not been here in a while and I could not believe the small amount of use of this forum compared to other forums. My problems are about the login, but I did get logged in today. I really enjoy the information and the critique on the potential comp. prints. I would love to hear how the prints did in the competition after the critique here.

Well, compared to the similar forums that I know about that are most similar to this one (montezucker.com, zuga.net)--and free, this forum is as active as those.

Holly_Howe
12-16-2006, 02:55 AM
Added to the fact that most photographers consider themselves as either "know it alls" or, and this is unfortunately "takers but not sharers".
Michael


Michael, I don't know if that's the only reason. I think maybe it's fear of sounding foolish. Maybe they are afraid they have nothing worthwhile to offer. Or perhaps they don't want to ask a question because they feel everyone will laugh at them for not knowing the answer already. Either way fear holds them back.

Holly

Betsy_Finn
12-16-2006, 03:00 AM
Michael, I don't know if that's the only reason. I think maybe it's fear of sounding foolish. Maybe they are afraid they have nothing worthwhile to offer. Or perhaps they don't want to ask a question because they feel everyone will laugh at them for not knowing the answer already. Either way fear holds them back.

Holly

I think there are other reasons besides fear. When you're getting into a forum, you aren't necessarily familiar with the group dynamics, and may not feel like stepping in until you have an actual question.....then the downward spiral begins! ;)

Betsy_Finn
12-16-2006, 03:11 AM
I did a little research ;) using the members search engine. Here are some statistics I found.

According to the front page there are 7,399 members.
The members list found 6190 members.

The average number of members joining per month is 273. This excludes the max and min values over the 17 months the forum has existed (record low = 30 joining in July 05; record high = 2222 joining in August 05).

There are 4755 "new members" with no posts
There are 1244 "new members" with at least one post
There are 120 "members" and 71 "senior members"

23% of OurPPA members have posted to the forum


So far this month, 186 different members have posted.


So, I'm not in an analyzing mood, but there are some numbers for your statistical enjoyment :cool:

Holly_Howe
12-16-2006, 03:15 AM
I think there are other reasons besides fear. When you're getting into a forum, you aren't necessarily familiar with the group dynamics, and may not feel like stepping in until you have an actual question.....then the downward spiral begins! ;)


unfamilar/unsure = fear of doing or saying something wrong

Betsy you and are are refering to the same kind of issues. We are just using different words to describe it.

Holly

Betsy_Finn
12-16-2006, 04:38 AM
unfamilar/unsure = fear of doing or saying something wrong
no, not necessary. But I wasn't trying to disagree with your point, mainly I was trying to add to the list of reasons.

Jack_Reznicki
12-16-2006, 04:47 AM
I have not been here in a while and I could not believe the small amount of use of this forum compared to other forums.

Two issues here. One we are more interested in quality discussions, not quantity of members.
Two, we do not "play" or adjust" the counter as to how many members are currently on. You can adjust it so you get everyone who is "on" in say the last 3 or 4 hours gets counted. Or whatever. There are ways to massage numbers.

I think PPA is very happy with the general discussion quality here and the participation level. There is a real feeling of community, of sharing, of peer to peer communications and help.
The numbers are the numbers and not our primary concern in this Forum.
We've looked to make this inclusive of our community, not exclusive.

Why do we as Americans always get concerned with large amounts and "sizing up"?

This Forum seems to feel "just right" as Goldilocks would say.

Lori_Clapp
12-16-2006, 05:22 AM
As long as we get our questions answered (which we do)....one member would be plenty! But the more the merrier.

No matter how many people participate in this forum, we sure get a lot of good information!

Betsy_Finn
12-16-2006, 06:22 AM
As long as we get our questions answered (which we do)....one member would be plenty! But the more the merrier.

No matter how many people participate in this forum, we sure get a lot of good information!

Exactly! Although having a *few* members does help to get a variety of opinions ;) ;)

Marc_Benjamin
12-16-2006, 07:32 AM
Why do you think that more ppa people are not using this forum?

Hi Bonita,

Great to see you here. Anyway's, there's a lot of "lurkers/read only users here" and I know a few who religiously read but decide not to post just because it takes a lot of time to keep up. Funny, though most of these people will call me or talk over dinner rather than reply here.

A friend and I ran a vendor booth at a Software Cinema event last week in San Francisco and a few people walked up to me and asked if I was the MarcBenjamin from the forums since they were not sure. Probably since I don't really look like my avatar right now. Anyway's, we start talking about topics here and I ask how come they don't post more. They say that they have no time and are just happy reading.

PS. I tried to get a picture with Jack but I only had about 20 seconds with him since he was sooooooo popular lol j/k;)

KirkDarling
12-16-2006, 01:25 PM
Why do we as Americans always get concerned with large amounts and "sizing up"?

"When we got down to Woodstock, we were half a million strong."

I've been taught in management seminars that the Boomer Generation has always been pre-occupied with numbers because we were so numerous. We grew up in big families, in big classrooms, in big groups. Even the Boomer counterculture (people who went to Woodstock, or wanted to) were interested in the numbers. We are validated by being in the largest group, being the majority.

The X Generation, from what I've been taught, is insensitive to large numbers. Typified by television programs like "Friends," X-Genners preferred tight-knit, small associations.

However, the Y Generation is more like the Boomers (and is second in size only to the Boomers), and also likes to be numbered among the numerous.

From what I can see, the Net Generation (like my daughter) seem happy to be alone in "real space" and happy in virtual groups.

David_A._Lottes
12-16-2006, 01:54 PM
"AND EVERYWHERE WAS A SONG AND A CELEBRATION" Thanks Kirk that will be stuck in my head all weekend! Did you know Joni Mitchel wrote that?


Even the Boomer counterculture (people who went to Woodstock, or wanted to) were interested in the numbers. We are validated by being in the largest group, being the majority.



And yet everyone wants to be unique.:rolleyes: As long as all their friends are unique also.:cool:

Mark_Katz
12-16-2006, 05:19 PM
I did a little research ;) using the members search engine. Here are some statistics I found.

According to the front page there are 7,399 members.
The members list found 6190 members.

The average number of members joining per month is 273. This excludes the max and min values over the 17 months the forum has existed (record low = 30 joining in July 05; record high = 2222 joining in August 05).

There are 4755 "new members" with no posts
There are 1244 "new members" with at least one post
There are 120 "members" and 71 "senior members"

23% of OurPPA members have posted to the forum


So far this month, 186 different members have posted.


So, I'm not in an analyzing mood, but there are some numbers for your statistical enjoyment :cool:
This might be the reason that I would like to moderate in the Tech forum. I believe one of these calculations is incorrect. If 4755 new members have never posted out of 7399 total members, then the percentage of posters is actually 36% and not 23%.

Truthfully I never cared for advanced math either, so if I'm wrong, don't shoot me :o

Jack_Reznicki
12-16-2006, 07:11 PM
PS. I tried to get a picture with Jack but I only had about 20 seconds with him since he was sooooooo popular lol j/k;)
Hey Marc,

So sorry. It was a crazy day (as the month has been). Hope to talk with you more next time.

Marc_Benjamin
12-19-2006, 08:47 PM
Hey Jack, sure thing lol.

Next time I'll make sure to have you sign my Jack for Prez T-shirt!

Holly_Howe
12-19-2006, 08:49 PM
Next time I'll make sure to have you sign my Jack for Prez T-shirt!

Prez???? I thought he was running for king of the world?

Holly

Marc_Benjamin
12-19-2006, 08:51 PM
Prez???? I thought he was running for king of the world?

Holly

Oh, yeah, I'll make sure to bring a red sharpie so he could cross out prez and write king on top of it!

Betsy_Finn
12-19-2006, 10:21 PM
This might be the reason that I would like to moderate in the Tech forum. I believe one of these calculations is incorrect. If 4755 new members have never posted out of 7399 total members, then the percentage of posters is actually 36% and not 23%.

Truthfully I never cared for advanced math either, so if I'm wrong, don't shoot me :oNow I'm just being obnoxious here ;) in a light-hearted way I promise!! (what color should we use for "in jest"??)

Ah, yes, but you see I used the number of total members from the members list page, not the "total members" according to the main community page....The members list had 6190 -- so approx 1400 posters, divided by 7000 approx members

And you'll notice that those totaled do not equal either of the total I had previously listed (the sum is 6119). so 120+1244 = 1364, divide 1364 by 6119and you get 22.29%. Since I don't like to cut up members, I rounded up to 23%

Ok, return to your regularly scheduled discussion.... :p :p

lori_nordstrom
12-20-2006, 02:00 AM
Added to the fact that most photographers consider themselves as either "know it alls" or, and this is unfortunately "takers but not sharers".
Michael


the more you give away, the more you make room for new....

Betsy_Finn
12-20-2006, 03:01 AM
the more you give away, the more you make room for new....

That's a good way to look at things, Lori :)

Bonita_Rice
12-22-2006, 06:01 AM
I really enjoyed reading all your ideas on my post. I know we have a lot of members, but I wish the viewers could feel more comfortable to post. I guess I am going to forums that have a huge amounts of posts and it is a lot more comfortable for me to post there. I really like this forum but I am guilty of being a viewer and not a poster too. I like Nikon Cafe, dpreview, I love photography and of course Monte's forum and Zuga. I know that if you don't post, you don't feel as much a part of the group, and I know this is the best forum to really learn the art from people that know the business. Thanks again for all your replies.

Mark_Levesque
12-22-2006, 02:08 PM
I wish the viewers could feel more comfortable to post. [...] I really like this forum but I am guilty of being a viewer and not a poster too.
It starts with you, Bonita. It's definitely easier to take, but I think it's our individual responsibility to give as well. I admit that it was a little intimidating at first. But nobody bites. And it definitely gets easier after you've posted a few times. There's really no reason for it to be any more intimidating to post here than any of the other places you post. Indeed, I challenge you to find a place where (even differing) opinions are more respectfully expressed. We have a range of posters here, from minimal experience to masters with decades of experience, and everywhere in between. It's a good mix, but we're always looking for fresh perspectives. So take it upon yourself to give some advice, critique an image, offer a solution. We all gain from that.

Betsy_Finn
12-22-2006, 03:07 PM
I know that if you don't post, you don't feel as much a part of the group, and I know this is the best forum to really learn the art from people that know the business. Thanks again for all your replies.

That's very true, Bonita -- you just need to keep posting more and then you'll start feeling more comfortable sharing your ideas (which are valuable)!

Here's some threads you might find a little easier to post to :p

Derek recently started a thread called "New Members Welcome (http://ourppa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4183)"
Jackie started a thread Ultra Newbie (http://ourppa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3896) - any question is a good question, but especially here!
We also have A Face with a Name (http://ourppa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1377) -- for introducing yourself (or you can start your own thread for introduction :) )

D._Craig_Flory
01-03-2007, 07:10 PM
I would hope that no one would ever keep from posting a question simply because they didn't want to appear lacking in knowledge. Knowledge is gained from asking questions. The only dumb question is when it isn't asked.

I also hope, people, don't keep from posting images because they don' think they are up to where others are on here. Everyone started somewhere. Once again, if an image doesn't get posted then critiques and suggestions to better the work will never get posted.

Dea_Bell
01-03-2007, 09:32 PM
In my case, it's intimidation.

Holly_Howe
01-03-2007, 09:35 PM
So - I went to your site. Your work is very nice! You shouldn't be intimidated by anything or anyone here.

Holly

D._Craig_Flory
01-03-2007, 09:42 PM
Holly is right ... the images on your site are very nice. Don't ever hesitate to post images on here.

David_A._Lottes
01-03-2007, 09:44 PM
I'll second that! Your site is the cutest thing I've seen anyone do with a web site! And your galleries are terrific. Welcome to the Forum. I read the part about your daughter on the web site. Are you working with the NILMDTS charity? I see your working with another children's charity that I'm not familiar with. Anyway the point is you have my immediate respect for doing what you do for families with special needs children. Keep posting Dea!

Dea_Bell
01-04-2007, 04:58 AM
Aw, thank you all!

No David, I haven't heard of that organization. I'll have to go Google it.

Kinsey_Anderson
01-04-2007, 07:46 PM
I agree Dea, great photographs. some of us might be intimidated by your work :cool: