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Betsy_Finn
07-26-2006, 05:27 PM
Ok so I took the initiave and submitted a set of 20 images on DVD for the July 28th deadline. I've heard it takes about 2 weeks to get results (if that's wrong, feel free to correct me). Being the worrier I am, :rolleyes: now I'm wondering if the images I submitted are "good enough." [yeah, I'm being too hard on myself and shouldn't...I know :o ]

When the judges accept or deny Certification Image submissions, do you receive reasons for their decision?? (e.g. great lighting on this one v.s this one has improper lighting and was rejected). Or do you just get a notice as to whether you "passed/failed"?

Dan_Leary
07-26-2006, 06:11 PM
Hi Betsy,

I just received my certification and it took them more like 2 1/2 months to get the results back to me. All I got back was my original submission form with the judges signature under "accepted by jurors" bracket... no comments. But mine was accepted by all jurors so I don't know what they might do if they're not accepted. However, I've seen you're work and I think all of you're worrying is for nothing... I think you won't have any trouble having your images accepted. But I worried too... especially about two months, one week and six days into waiting to hear back from the panel.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Danny

Betsy_Finn
07-26-2006, 07:18 PM
Danny, thanks :). I hope it won't take 2.5 months!! (if it does, I bet I'll drive my husband crazy :cool: ).

btw.... congrats on getting the images accepted! (...even if you did have to wait so long).

Auralee_Dallas
07-26-2006, 08:56 PM
Good Luck Betsy,
Waiting is awful--do they only allow you to submit once a year? I need to read the instructions.
After reading all the stuff on creating DVDs and special software and color correction, I think I'm sending paper prints. I'll let my lab worry about all the correction and won't have to buy software I don't need and then teach myself to use it.

When are you planning to take the test and do you feel that the study group was a big help. I read the test questions on the book site and felt they were pretty outdated, but definitely good stuff to know.

The sample questions from PPA seemed more relevant.
Again, good luck to you.
Auralee Dallas

Holly_Howe
07-26-2006, 11:14 PM
I'm wondering - is the long delay in getting approval because they only have a panel of judges every so often? Like maybe 3 or 4 times a year? It's been a long time since I got certified but I know it was no where near 2 months. And they called me with my test results in about 2 weeks. If you wanna know when they will be reviewed just call national and ask. I wouldn't have been patient enough to wait so long. Craig should know the answer to this.

Holly

Betsy_Finn
07-26-2006, 11:40 PM
Good Luck Betsy,
Waiting is awful--do they only allow you to submit once a year? I need to read the instructions.
After reading all the stuff on creating DVDs and special software and color correction, I think I'm sending paper prints. I'll let my lab worry about all the correction and won't have to buy software I don't need and then teach myself to use it.

When are you planning to take the test and do you feel that the study group was a big help. I read the test questions on the book site and felt they were pretty outdated, but definitely good stuff to know.

The sample questions from PPA seemed more relevant.
Again, good luck to you.
Auralee Dallas
I think there are quartly review deadlines...But the only reason I know July 28th is a deadline is because of this forum -- the cerification site doesn't have those dates listed (they're TBA - hehe).

Yeah I thought DVD submission would be tricky (it does sound hard)...but I'm really glad I tried it. I might even make a few portfolio DVD's the same way, since they looked really good on my TV. (better than laptop hooked up through S-Video connection).

I'm planning on taking the test Oct. 8th at the PPM Fall convention in Traverse City, MI. It will give me time to review my "problem areas" but also will be early enough that I can still retake it in Nov in IL if necessary.... (but I plan to pass the first time!). The study group has been great for me because otherwise I might not have kept up with the reading....and for the chapters that did have difficult material, it was good to be able to discuss the concepts (I still get the color filters confused...only printed color prints for a short time myself and even then didn't know it except visually). yeah, sections of the book are outdated, but they have tried to update it to include sections on PS and digital imaging.

Thanks!

Betsy_Finn
07-26-2006, 11:42 PM
I'm wondering - is the long delay in getting approval because they only have a panel of judges every so often? Like maybe 3 or 4 times a year? It's been a long time since I got certified but I know it was no where near 2 months. And they called me with my test results in about 2 weeks. If you wanna know when they will be reviewed just call national and ask. I wouldn't have been patient enough to wait so long. Craig should know the answer to this.

Holly
Good point, Holly. From what I understand there are quarterly reviews....maybe they received Danny's a month or two before the deadline....?

D._Craig_Flory
07-27-2006, 12:46 AM
Hi Holly;

There are scheduled review dates. The Professional Photographer lists when and where exams are scheduled. Print review dates are also listed there I believe. It used to be they would be judged whenever and wherever they could get 5 masters together. Now I'm pretty sure it's more of a structured time factor.

D. Craig Flory PPA Certified, Cr.Photog., PPA C.P.P. Liaison. ASP
floryphotog@mindspring.com

Dan_Leary
07-27-2006, 05:29 AM
Good point, Holly. From what I understand there are quarterly reviews....maybe they received Danny's a month or two before the deadline....?

OH boy... that's just funny. You actually think I'm punctual! To be perfectly honest with you, I had to overnight my entries the day before the deadline. Cause ya know, three months of preparation time ain't what it used to be. I think the very nice lady I spoke with over the phone (whose name I can't remember), told me that the deadline was just that... a deadline. That didn't mean your images were being judged that day. She also said several other photographers were looking for their submissions as well, so I'm thinking maybe it was just a busy month. Regardless, if they were judging them while you waited outside it would still be agonizing. I pined over my entries for weeks wondering if I made the right choices. But I think you'll do just fine Betsy... I've seen you're work and it shouldn't be a problem. GOOD LUCK and keep us posted.

Betsy_Finn
07-27-2006, 08:54 PM
That's ok.... :D I got pretty close to that...

Sent mine priority mail to make sure the DVD submission would make it on time...and then realized that I sent the submission and the CPP application the same day -- not what they request you to do. :eek: I got it straightened out, the person at PPA was very helpful, thankfully.

Betsy_Finn
08-14-2006, 08:06 PM
well today I got impatient enough that I called PPA to find out when I would find out about my submissions. I guess they now inform you by mail...you should get your notification 2-4 weeks after the judging, if not sooner.

*trying to wait patiently* :eek:

Marc_Benjamin
08-14-2006, 08:09 PM
well today I got impatient enough that I called PPA to find out when I would find out about my submissions.*trying to wait patiently* :eek:

Hey Betsy,

After reading all of your post on CPP, I think most of us here are starting to feel your anticipation as well! You'll be CPP by imaging USA and your sooo gonna buy a round of drinks or is it the other way around?

Betsy_Finn
08-14-2006, 08:28 PM
Hey Betsy,

After reading all of your post on CPP, I think most of us here are starting to feel your anticipation as well! You'll be CPP by imaging USA and your sooo gonna buy a round of drinks or is it the other way around?
Hmmmmmmmmm :D people should buy me drinks I think! :cool:

George_Hawkins
08-15-2006, 11:45 AM
Hmmmmmmmmm :D people should buy me drinks I think! :cool:

YOU WILL BE CONGRATULTED. However, Marc I think is quite correct. After all the advice & little bits of info given out for all CPP study group, you all "owe" us! Let us know which watering hole(s) to meet you at.

George

Betsy_Finn
08-15-2006, 12:53 PM
YOU WILL BE CONGRATULTED. However, Marc I think is quite correct. After all the advice & little bits of info given out for all CPP study group, you all "owe" us! Let us know which watering hole(s) to meet you at.

George
:D yeah :cool: of course...all that advice was really helpful after all....assuming I make it to Imaging USA, many thanks will be in order! (possible scheduling conflicts at the moment)

Art_Wright
08-15-2006, 07:57 PM
Betsy, can you post some images so I can see what kind of shots to submit?

D._Craig_Flory
08-15-2006, 08:55 PM
Hi Art;

You should submit a cross-section of what you do in your studio. If you do about 25% children's portraits, you must submit five 8X10's or 25% of the required 20. And if you do 40% weddings, you must submit eight 8x10's of weddings. They will ask you percentages of the work you do.

As for what images to submit ... your best work in a quality that would get at least a score of 76, or higher, in print competition. (PPA does not give scores. A merit is a score of 80 or higher. But state assns. do have scores and that is what you should go by) If you are a member of your state group, find several Masters or Craftsmen to review your work so they can recommend which to submit.

Have you taken the written exam yet ? If not, I would tell you to contact the C.P.P. liaison for your state to get more information including what dates and locations they give the exam. I give it 4 times a year here in Pennsylvania including this coming October 1st. Some photographers from the Forum are traveling to Pa. to take the exam from me and then pay to stay for our two days of outstanding speakers. Let me know if you need any more help.

D. Craig Flory PPA Certified, Cr.Photog., PPA C.P.P. Liaison, ASP
floryphotog@mindspring.com

Art_Wright
08-15-2006, 09:02 PM
Thanks, Craig! I guess I'll be calling Doug Box, then... I really just wanted to see which of Betty's images (from her website?) she submitted, as I have never submitted prints for competition and wanted her stuff so I could see what the more senior members on ourppa.com consider good...

Betsy_Finn
08-15-2006, 09:31 PM
hehe well I don't know that you want to follow my example necessarily ;)

The limit of one image per event was tricky for me, as I had a few favorites from one event in particular. I don't mind comments to my submission images... just don't be too harsh! :rolleyes:

Randy_Brister
08-16-2006, 02:49 AM
Let me hop in and ask if anyone knows the next deadline for print submissions? Or do we just send in our images when we are ready? I can't find it on the CPP site, although I may have simply missed it. I'm planning on taking the CPP exam in San Antonio.

Holly_Howe
08-16-2006, 02:53 AM
Betsy - aren't the two wedding images from the same wedding? Or do the brides just kinda look alike? Kinda hard to tell on these small files and when they are both kissing - I was just curious.
Holly

Betsy_Finn
08-16-2006, 11:57 AM
Betsy - aren't the two wedding images from the same wedding? Or do the brides just kinda look alike? Kinda hard to tell on these small files and when they are both kissing - I was just curious.
Holly
Holly, they're actually different! Although they do kind of look similar :p ...Hmmm I hadn't realized I chose 2 kissing wedding images... oops!

Betsy_Finn
08-16-2006, 12:07 PM
Let me hop in and ask if anyone knows the next deadline for print submissions? Or do we just send in our images when we are ready? I can't find it on the CPP site, although I may have simply missed it. I'm planning on taking the CPP exam in San Antonio.
The next image deadline is October 6th 2006... David Mithofer posted it on another thread (http://ourppa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1556). There seems to be some incongruity between deciding on deadlines and exam dates and actually posting them on the certification or ppa websites. There are no posted exam dates in Michigan either, but I called my state liason and found out it's being offered in October. Take a look at this list (http://www.certifiedphotographer.com/files/public/Cert_Liaisons.pdf) and give yours a call -- I bet it's being offered at the next state PPA seminar ;).

Hope that helps!

Randy_Brister
08-16-2006, 03:35 PM
Thank you, Betsy.

Betsy_Finn
08-16-2006, 03:49 PM
no problem :)

Holly_Howe
08-16-2006, 05:00 PM
...Hmmm I hadn't realized I chose 2 kissing wedding images... oops!

I didn't mean to suggest that was a no no- just why I wasn't sure. good Luck!

Holly

Betsy_Finn
08-16-2006, 05:03 PM
ah ok. Thanks Holly :)

Betsy_Finn
08-18-2006, 09:05 PM
Well, I am now more experienced for when I complete my second set of Certification Images. The first set was rejected.

I received a "Certification Image Review Report" detailing the various issues my set of images had (list included all possible issues, the issues seen by the judges were checked off). 2 things I noticed that I think pertain to my method of submission: underexposure and the lack of sharpness in the images. (now that I review the DVD -- this is particularly evident in the location images with small subjects :eek: ).

I double checked all the initial images that I burned to the DVD slideshow, and none of them were underexposed. They were also all crisp, with the subjects in focus. So, for anyone considering submitting the DVD Video -- yeah, it may be easier, but there are potential trade-offs.

I think when I submit my next set for the October 6th deadline, I will be submitting 8x10 prints....There has got to be less chance of having technology limitations affect the perceived quality of the images.

I'm not saying that that is the sole reason for my images being rejected....but it is definitely a factor. But, at least now I know what to expect! :cool:

Holly_Howe
08-18-2006, 09:29 PM
Sorry Betsy! Wish it could have turned out differently for you. If I was closer I'd come over and we'd share a big box of chocolates. I'm sure your openess and willing to share what went wrong for you will be a big help to those submitting images in the future. Next time you'll get 'em for sure!

Holly

Betsy_Finn
08-18-2006, 09:34 PM
:o Thanks Holly! :D mmmm....chocolate!

JohnHeckler
08-18-2006, 10:09 PM
Is it all or nothing, or do they pick on individual images? So, if 11 out of 20 are passable, would they just reject 9 and require you to resubmit or replace 9 images? Just curious as to how this works and I still need to do this part of the certification too. I passed the test last March and meant to submit my images for the July cut off but got distracted. I hope to make the Oct deadline.

Betsy_Finn
08-18-2006, 11:22 PM
John, unfortunately it's all or nothing. You can resubmit the ones you think are "good" the next time.....but they won't tell you that 11 out of 20 passed. Either the body of images passed or it didn't.

JohnHeckler
08-19-2006, 03:04 AM
Hmmm, that is kind of a bummer ... so they don't give any image specific comments? Not sure I see the point in that approached ...

Betsy_Finn
08-19-2006, 03:39 AM
They did write in a comment on mine....about the subject being out-of-focus -- again, due to the method of presentation.

Other than that....I got no specific info from the panel of judges.

D._Craig_Flory
08-19-2006, 12:21 PM
Hi Betsy;

At one time, you could get a critique audio cassette tape and they would tell you what was wrong with certain images. I'll have to ask, next week, why they no longer offer that. I think it's a good learning tool, knowing where you were a bit weak. Hopefully I can get an answer early in the week. My feeling is that maybe with the advent of DVD submission they don't have a print to hold and make comments on.

D. Craig Flory PPA Certified, Cr.Photog., ASP
floryphotog@mindspring.com

Auralee_Dallas
08-19-2006, 04:28 PM
Hi Betsy,
That is brave of you to let us all know that your images were rejected. We were all biting our nails along with you. I'm also glad you gave us some information on the submission by DVD. I was going back and forth about prints or DVD and now am going to do the prints. I think that way there are no issues about them looking different on different computers or lack of quality because of file sizing or the like. Having 20 images printed probably isn't much more expensive than purchasing the software and then there is the time getting to know it and the color calibration.
Keep on truckin' (I know you will!) and we will all be supporting each other through this process.
I wish there was a way to get a mentor for this process. I know many folks at my affiliate but am a little afraid to ask.

Marc_Benjamin
08-19-2006, 05:07 PM
I know many folks at my affiliate but am a little afraid to ask.

Hi Auralee,

Why?

Hi Betsy,

That's a bummer man! Other than the exposure and sharpness issue, which of your images do you suspect not being accepted. Also, did you open your slideshow strong and closed it with your best? This might just be me but I think the slide order can and may help a little if the judge is on the fence.

Don_Chick
08-19-2006, 07:37 PM
I wish there was a way to get a mentor for this process. I know many folks at my affiliate but am a little afraid to ask.

When I was new to my state association I asked a member to be a part of his group that went out shooting. He told me that his car held 4 people and that there were 4 in the group. I was not welcome to participate. I did not let that deter me... I met others to hang out with and have had many wonderful experiences with photographers who were willing to include me.
Some that you encounter will not be willing to share but I think they are the exception. There are many many photographers willing to give back and share with others.

Ask and ye shall receive....

Betsy_Finn
08-20-2006, 01:43 AM
Hi Betsy;

At one time, you could get a critique audio cassette tape and they would tell you what was wrong with certain images. I'll have to ask, next week, why they no longer offer that. I think it's a good learning tool, knowing where you were a bit weak. Hopefully I can get an answer early in the week. My feeling is that maybe with the advent of DVD submission they don't have a print to hold and make comments on.

D. Craig Flory PPA Certified, Cr.Photog., ASP
floryphotog@mindspring.com
That's interesting -- I would defintitely find something like that helpful... Thanks for looking into it! :D

Betsy_Finn
08-20-2006, 01:47 AM
Hi Betsy,
That is brave of you to let us all know that your images were rejected. We were all biting our nails along with you. I'm also glad you gave us some information on the submission by DVD. I was going back and forth about prints or DVD and now am going to do the prints. I think that way there are no issues about them looking different on different computers or lack of quality because of file sizing or the like. Having 20 images printed probably isn't much more expensive than purchasing the software and then there is the time getting to know it and the color calibration.
Keep on truckin' (I know you will!) and we will all be supporting each other through this process.
I wish there was a way to get a mentor for this process. I know many folks at my affiliate but am a little afraid to ask.
Auralee -- thanks, I'm just trying to make life easier on my fellow CPP applicants ;).

Don't be afraid! Sure, you might feel a little intimidated about emailing or calling one of the photographers you look up to (or who are well known in the industry), but chances are, they will be more than happy to give their input. If they don't....then just move on to another "trusted" name :) and ask again.

Betsy_Finn
08-20-2006, 01:50 AM
That's a bummer man! Other than the exposure and sharpness issue, which of your images do you suspect not being accepted. Also, did you open your slideshow strong and closed it with your best? This might just be me but I think the slide order can and may help a little if the judge is on the fence.
Yeah, I feel like I staggered my images throughout the slideshow, and felt like I ended on one of my better images.

There are two images where I created a very dramatic and harsh lighting, with a lighting ratio that was very contrasty. I may not have explained these images well enough to the point that the individual WANTED their image to look so contrasty and blown-out. I'll post some more details later...I just got back from a family reunion and am tired out! (I'm going to bed after I catch up on these posts :cool: )

Betsy_Finn
08-20-2006, 01:52 AM
Some that you encounter will not be willing to share but I think they are the exception. There are many many photographers willing to give back and share with others.

Ask and ye shall receive....
Well said! Most of the intimidation factor or whatever you want to call it is self-imposed. Once you get past the intial step, actaully asking for help/advice, it's all easier from that point :) -- you just have to be willing to ask.

D._Craig_Flory
08-21-2006, 05:22 PM
Hi Betsy;

I talked to David Mithofer at PPA and he said that print images were not accepted at a higher rate than DVD submission. And he said that an audio critique is no longer available. So I guess the best thing is to have one, or several, Masters reviewing which images you choose and then reviewing the DVD to make sure all images come across looking their best.

D. Craig Flory PPA Certified, Cr.Photog., ASP
floryphotog@mindspring.com

Betsy_Finn
08-21-2006, 05:40 PM
Hi Betsy;

I talked to David Mithofer at PPA and he said that print images were not accepted at a higher rate than DVD submission. And he said that an audio critique is no longer available. So I guess the best thing is to have one, or several, Masters reviewing which images you choose and then reviewing the DVD to make sure all images come across looking their best.

D. Craig Flory PPA Certified, Cr.Photog., ASP
floryphotog@mindspring.com
Thanks for checking for me Craig! I appreciate that! maybe my next step will be to mail "pre submission" DVD's to (unlucky :eek: ) masters in this forum ;) ;)

Tommie_Huffman
08-27-2006, 01:06 AM
Thank you so much Betsy. I am taking my exam on Oct 15th and submitting my images on the 6th. I have learned so much from you.
thanks and good luck with your resubmition

Betsy_Finn
08-27-2006, 02:41 PM
Thank you so much Betsy. I am taking my exam on Oct 15th and submitting my images on the 6th. I have learned so much from you.
thanks and good luck with your resubmition
no problem, I'm glad to help :). And thank you, I do plan on aceing it next time around :p

btw, welcome to the forum! :D :cool:

(There's a little rule about using your first and last name when posting....it's good to know who you're talking to! You can add your name in your signature or PM one of the administrators about changing it...)

Betsy_Finn
10-14-2006, 02:54 AM
Just wanted to let you all know my images were accepted :) so I'm halfway to being certified! :D

I used ProShow Gold this time to make my DVD (yeah, I stuck with DVD)... and I could definitely tell a quality difference (from using Ulead or Roxio). So wohoo!!!

:cool:

Marc_Benjamin
10-14-2006, 05:39 AM
Congrats, knew you could do it!

KirkDarling
10-14-2006, 01:37 PM
Just wanted to let you all know my images were accepted :) so I'm halfway to being certified! :D

I used ProShow Gold this time to make my DVD (yeah, I stuck with DVD)... and I could definitely tell a quality difference (from using Ulead or Roxio). So wohoo!!!

:cool:

What were the quality differences? Are you saying using different software made that significant a difference in the result?

Betsy_Finn
10-14-2006, 02:30 PM
What were the quality differences? Are you saying using different software made that significant a difference in the result?
Well I cant say for SURE... but yeah, I think so.

1st DVD: I tried using PicturesToExe, then ended up using Ulead (or Roxio I dont remember) to create the slideshow.

I thought: Ok, image quality is somewhat degraded, but its the media -- judges will be understanding :p

Results: Judges thought most images were underexposed, and wrote in that the images were fuzzy and not sharply focused.



2nd DVD: Used ProShow Gold

I thought: Wow, Images are much crisper and the colors do translate better.

Results: Judges must have thought so too ;)