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joemama
01-24-2012, 10:12 PM
Hello everyone!

I tried earlier to post some images without using the "attachment" feature and was rather unsuccessful. Here is another attempt at posting these images for comments and feedback. I really do appreciate any and all feedback... particularly from the seasoned vets. I hope to someday be able to contribute back three fold what I take away from here. Thank you so much for your time and consideration.

http://jmpstudio.net/portfolioPortfolio/galleryOther/FootballBarbie.jpg
Football Barbie

http://jmpstudio.net/portfolioPortfolio/galleryOther/BrownEyedLady.jpg
Brown Eyed Lady

http://jmpstudio.net/portfolioPortfolio/galleryOther/JoannaattheDam.jpg
Joanna at the Dam

Rick_Massarini
01-24-2012, 10:14 PM
nothing came over ...

joemama
01-24-2012, 10:22 PM
Yeah... I see that. I am really struggling with embedding these images. Can someone please remove this post? I guess I just give up (and I almost never give up...).


BIIIIIIGGG Thank you to Greg Yager for picking my butt up off the ground and helping me BEAT this thing! ha ha

GregYager
01-24-2012, 10:23 PM
Just spoke with Joe on the phone. I think we have it worked out now so he should have them posted soon.

Rick_Massarini
01-24-2012, 10:26 PM
You might try changing browsers - try Firefox - I had tons of problems with IE on the PPA website and forum.

Dang, Greg - the image you posted is coming over HUGE - I can only see a small portion of it at one time on my screen - gotta scroll over and down about 2 pages to see the whole picture...

GregYager
01-24-2012, 10:38 PM
Dang, Greg - the image you posted is coming over HUGE - I can only see a small portion of it at one time on my screen - gotta scroll over and down about 2 pages to see the whole picture...

That was one I had grabbed from his website to make sure I was giving him the right info on how to post from there.

Michael_Mathias
01-25-2012, 01:04 AM
Joe, I really like the "Brown Eyed Lady". I feel more connected with it. Seems more natural or earthy to me. Her hair has a framing rhythm to it. The banister helps frame/guide my eyes to her. Couple of things though is that white outline along her left arm and side, and the row of spots coming down beside her head.

I feel that "Barbie" is being crowded a bit by the press box....I like the effect of the clouds and sky behind and around the press box, but "rangers", and the front really competes for my eyes. I guess I would have preferred the front to be softened some.
Perhaps a wider spacing between? The gable end seems competitive also. If she was standing in front of the gable hiding it....giving just a bit more space between her and the press box..or would that be too heavy on one side?

Joanna's top is pretty hot to me. Would like to see more detail there along with her shoulder. Seems to me the attire is as important as she is in this pose.

However I can see all three images easily being used. I am curious as to the original intent of the images.

Sarah_Johnston
01-25-2012, 04:20 AM
HI Joe,
In my opinion Barbie needs a little less effect on her. She is so built that the effect makes her ruddy and more masculine than attractive. I say let her muscles speak for themselves. Also, why is the main light on her is opposite from the light on the press box?
Brown eyes- I like the wind in her hair with that expression. I personally would have brought the knee on our right over more. I do not like the crotch shot. Lighting is nice. I love the rim light.
Joanna-I like her pose but the lighting is so strong high-lights seem blown out on both sides. Her body is lit brighter than her face which pulls me away from the face. The light on our left if it was at about half the power would make a nice kicker.

Vance_Wagener
01-25-2012, 06:17 AM
Joe,

IMO, Brown Eyed is very well executed and is the strongest image of three. Only two minor things that I would change would be to knock down the white reflection next to her right elbow ( camera left ) and there is a weird shading on the second knuckle of her right hand which makes it looked bruised.

Joanna has some issues with lack of detail in the top (the highlights in the top are almost blown on my monitor) There is a serious shadow on her right shoulder being cast from the main as well as the shadow off the lower part of her necklace. The top itself is out of key for a lowkey image and is brighter than the subject.

Football Barbie is an interesting concept and I would encourage you to go in that direction again should opportunity presents itself again. The issues that I have are:

Her body itself seem too large for the scene compared to the bg giving her a giant appearance. Combine that with the backwards lean of the ranger building and it's relative sharpness (I would expect building to be softer) she looks PS'ed in. My preference would be to make her appear natural to the scene.

While she may be a body builder; she does look a bit masculine. The sculpting on her body is reminiscent of the Spartan's in 300. By the title it suggest you wanted to show the juxtaposition between the roughness of football and the female form. I'm not saying she shouldn't have muscles but suggesting that maybe they should be slightly less defined.

When lighting a subject for insertion or on actual location I prefer to use the main to complement the natural light. In this scene the sun is coming for camera right while your main is from camera left.

Please note: These suggestions are only how I would approach this particular concept. Your vision may be completely different and no less valid.

Hope it helps.

joemama
01-25-2012, 03:24 PM
Thank you for your comments!

Ok... I am tanking the Joanna at the Dam image. I didn't feel strong about that image anyway.

I took some of your comments about the other two and made some minor changes. On Football Barbie I toned back the muscles and made her smaller in the image as well as slightly blurred the BG. I also took the brightness of the Rangers logo down. Originally... I was really trying to make her look very hard and edgy but seeing your comments helps me understand that everyone else doesn't see it that way and I kinda chuckle. This is exactly why I like getting GOOD feedback from other photogs who know better.

I have a slightly differing opinion about the lighting though... in this image the sun is actually coming from behind her and to "her" left making for a back light/edge light scenario using the sun. In this case... the back light (sun) is in the right place to produce the edge light it would naturally cast on the subject (notice the shadows in the BG). Using a light opposite the sun is what I would normally do to avoid a cumulative exposure on the left side of her face (the camera's right side). Also... notice her hair style. Lighting her from camera right would cast a shadow from her hair into her left eye. My question is... would I really get beat up for this by the judges?

http://jmpstudio.net/portfolioPortfolio/galleryOther/FootballBarbie2.jpg

On Brown Eyed Lady, I cured the hand. :) I took out the reflection by her right elbow (thanks for pointing that out) and darkened her crotch area to avoid drawing attention to it (even though the fact that I just said that will cause you to look there anyway).

http://jmpstudio.net/portfolioPortfolio/galleryOther/BrownEyedLady2.jpg

Avery_Munger
01-25-2012, 04:10 PM
... My question is... would I really get beat up for this by the judges?

I don't know about the judges "beating you up", but she looks capable of a smack down on someone. :D

Joe, I really like your first two. Others may not agree with me, but I think your lighting of the first one is right on for the scenario you're shooting for. In "barbie" the second version is much better. I'm (personally) not super crazy for the press box in the background - even with it fuzzed and toned down. I think it does still compete a bit too much for me. Was this shot for comp or was this shot for a client (i.e. the Rangers)? Personally, if just for comp I would take out the press box (if possible) and leave the bleachers.

I'm certainly not a seasoned pro when it comes to competition. :) Just adding my two cents.

joemama
01-25-2012, 05:39 PM
I have never shot anything "for competition" and this will be my first time submitting images for competition/judging. To be honest... I really am not submitting with the intent of "competing" but more as a way to benchmark my work and see where I need to grow from there. I believe every business and artist should always be on a path of continual improvement. I see this as more of an opportunity for growth and self improvement than I do as a competition. Although, I will certainly be very elated and completely honored if any of my images score 80 or higher. For now... I am just getting my feet wet and testing the waters. From here I will shoot for competition because I feel I will have much better direction after I submit my images and receive feedback. I am also looking to earn merits toward a Master of Photography degree. For me, this is my next goal to achieve and I am not in any hurry.

I see what you (and others) are saying about the press box competing with the subject but there is a decision I have made as the artist to keep the press box because I personally like it. Call me selfish and perhaps I will get dinged pretty hard on that but I feel like it is a key component of this image. I see it as an anchor (I hope it isn't too heavy for the ship...) for the concept of the image. I have done a rough edit where I removed the press box and it just doesn't feel right to me for some reason. It feels empty/baron/pointless. But I do respect all of your opinions on it and I have definitely taken it into consideration (to the point where I spent a half hour editing it out and then trashing it... ha ha). I have some direction on how I might shoot something like this in the future. So either way... you've all helped me change the way I am thinking.

Also, as a compromise... what do you think about this image cropped as a portrait? Is this better?

http://jmpstudio.net/portfolioPortfolio/galleryOther/FootballBarbiePortait.jpg

Avery_Munger
01-25-2012, 06:16 PM
I have never shot anything "for competition" and this will be my first time submitting images for competition/judging. To be honest... I really am not submitting with the intent of "competing" but more as a way to benchmark my work and see where I need to grow from there.

Yep. I'm with ya there. Same boat really.


I see what you (and others) are saying about the press box competing with the subject but there is a decision I have made as the artist to keep the press box because I personally like it.

I like that statement.


Also, as a compromise... what do you think about this image cropped as a portrait? Is this better?

I like it better as a portrait, but others might have a different opinion. She's the "star of the show" now. And the buildings frame it nicely. Don't know how it would do in competition... as I don't feel qualified to speak about that. BTW, your "Brown Eyed Lady" image (after the changes) is fantastic.

GregYager
01-25-2012, 07:00 PM
I'm liking the press box. I would lighten her eye sockets a bit though.

joemama
01-25-2012, 07:14 PM
I'm liking the press box. I would lighten her eye sockets a bit though.

Eye sockets... lightened. Greg, did you like the portrait or the landscape?

http://jmpstudio.net/portfolioPortfolio/galleryOther/FootballBarbieES.jpg

Sarah_Johnston
01-26-2012, 12:38 AM
Ok I think we are getting somewhere. The tuff part is that now I see other things. None to difficult to address I don't think. Blown out high lights. In the clouds, her right hip and a bit of her hair.
Her left hip also has a small issue that I believe may be caused by the effect you used. It looks dirty not just shadowed.
Now I will keep my mouth shut. LOL

joemama
01-26-2012, 12:39 PM
Hey Sarah, I'm honored to have the feedback. You certainly don't have to feel like you should suppress your thoughts so keep it coming if you feel compelled to do so! I am not ever offended by good feedback and people's opinions (especially from those with the knowledge and experience). I know it is easy for people to get their feelings hurt when another person criticizes their work because it is so personal to them. Yes this is personal to me but I TRULY want to be the best I can be in this career. I simply can't do it alone... So yeah... THANK YOU! :)

carisak727
01-26-2012, 01:55 PM
It may just be the web-resizing, but her hair now looks a bit like one white-yellow blob on the top of her head. I would like to see the strands and definition in the hair more. Also, for my taste her skin is a little too plastic-like. Great concept and I love your dramatic lighting.

joemama
01-26-2012, 06:24 PM
Ok... another crack at this. I made some minor adjustments based on the feedback that I received. I cleaned up the dirty shadow and brought the highlights down in the clouds and her hair. The hottest spots on her her hair were originally measuring about 255R 246G and about 215B so yes... it was a little hot (blonde hair is tough). Now it is around 255R 238G and 205B. I don't think there is anything I can do about the red value but I still have white with detail. Also, I pulled out more detail in her hair. I also thought it looked a little too soft so that was an easy fix.

Also, please excuse the watermark. I forgot to take it out before I posted it and I don't have time at the moment to change this.

http://jmpstudio.net/portfolioPortfolio/galleryOther/FootballBarbiePortait2.jpg

GregYager
01-26-2012, 07:47 PM
I liked it landscape Joe but keep in mind I'm only in my second year of competition so I don't know if the judges would see the press box as a story telling element or a distraction.

Rick_Massarini
01-26-2012, 08:16 PM
I've seen a couple of images using this kind of background drop in effects and extremely hard lighting do very well this year - several hung - but the key thing is that the direction of the lighting in the background and the direction of the lighting on the subject were from the same direction. I know that sometimes you need to add additional light and it would be most probably used from a position opposite the direction of the strong backlighting, but when that is done, you get contrasting direction of light that indicates that the background was dropped in. The key to successful front projection or to a dropped in background is that the direction of lighting look real and consistent.

Heike_O'Day
01-26-2012, 08:16 PM
If I may add my 2cts worth, I love both images and you got great advice already. Now, in the past when I watched judging and I hear the title before I see the image, I already get some kind of idea and then when I see the image I either think "Perfect title" or "???HUH???" I love the FOOTBALL BARBie, but I'm not crazy about the word LADY in the 2nd image. She just doesn't strike me as a lady. And the main focus (not talking about sharpness) is not (just) her eyes. There's more to this image. I think a better title would give you better chances.

joemama
01-26-2012, 08:52 PM
I'm not crazy about the word LADY in the 2nd image. She just doesn't strike me as a lady. And the main focus (not talking about sharpness) is not (just) her eyes. There's more to this image. I think a better title would give you better chances.

I've already been thinking of a different title. You are totally right. Any suggestions? :)

Sarah_Johnston
01-26-2012, 10:45 PM
Love the latest version.

Michael_Mathias
01-26-2012, 11:45 PM
Hey Joe, The portrait of Barbie is looking fine. I like the landscape version...should be in a four letter sports mag...but the portrait is really nice. I've not done much comp yet...but would think the portrait would do better. Detail in her hair is a plus. Less competition from the press box looks way better too. Nice to see a slice of it for rounding out the story.
Brown Eyed is looking much better too. It always amazes me how many "spots" I miss the first few times looking at my images. Although I had no issue with where I wasn't supposed to look ..lol honestly the original looked better or more natural to me in that area. I do appreciate where Sarah is coming from though and have made a mental note to avoid an unflattering angle there. To me Joe, she looks "Wistful". Maybe she's thinking about "Plan B"? It's hard for me to title someone else's work....but wistful seems to fit for me...if you use it I do hope it works!! :-) Both images have come along nicely though in my opinion. Good job!