PDA

View Full Version : Merit Classes



GregYager
06-28-2011, 04:51 AM
What are the steps in offering merit classes? I assume you have to be an approved instructor but I'm just guessing.

ChontelleBrown
06-28-2011, 12:00 PM
Here is the link to the form. It is under Community>PPA Affiliates>Affiliate Resources then scroll to the bottom.


http://www.formspring.com/forms/?651882-HWPFKfFme6

Chontelle

Christine_Walsh-Newton
06-28-2011, 12:46 PM
That's interesting that teaching a merit class gets a service merit and not a speaking merit.

GregYager
06-28-2011, 01:09 PM
I thught the same thing Christine. Super Monday gets speaking merits and it's the same thing.

GregYager
06-28-2011, 01:18 PM
Thank you for finding that Chontelle. I must have went through a hundred links looking.

Keith_A_Howe
06-28-2011, 01:44 PM
That's interesting that teaching a merit class gets a service merit and not a speaking merit.


I thught the same thing Christine. Super Monday gets speaking merits and it's the same thing.

Not sure but guessing that it's because a continuing education class is put on by the speaker. They are the one charging for it and ultimately recieving any profit. So it's not really a benefit to PPA or any PPA affiliate. Maybe that's the justification for giving the less percieved value service merits? A Super Monday has no profit for the speaker. All money goes to PPA. So maybe they give speaker merits there to try and entice people to do Super Mondays instead of continuing education classes.


Keith

GregYager
06-28-2011, 02:02 PM
That was my guess too. PPA makes money on both but it's minimal for continuing Ed at only $25 per person. I wish the merits were based on the task performed and not the cash generated but there's not much I can do about that. I've had a lot of people asking me to do some classes and I figured this would be a good way to earn speaking merits. I figured wrong. Oh well...I need service merits too.

Jack_Reznicki
06-28-2011, 03:10 PM
PPA makes money on both but it's minimal for continuing Ed at only $25 per person.

Greg,

There's no profit at $25 as that's about what it costs to process a merit. With a full time staff at PPA and rent, their time is not "free".
As PPA tries to tell members to examine their true COS, PPA is fully aware of it's overhead costs.

Keith_A_Howe
06-28-2011, 03:21 PM
Jack, I have often wondered just how profitable the Super Mondays are. Takes a ton of work and marketing on the part of PPA. Does it pay off in the end, break even or actually cost to produce? Don't me get me wrong, I don't object whatever the final financial outcome because it's beneficial to the members. I am just curious.

Keith

Jack_Reznicki
06-28-2011, 03:40 PM
Keith,

I don't have figures anymore, but Super Monday did make money in past years. It's a number looked at yearly by the Board.

GregYager
06-28-2011, 04:38 PM
Jack, the idea I was getting at was PPA generates money on both. I'm sure there's no profit. It's the amount difference that seems to determine if you get credit for speaking or just a service merit. It just seemed odd that the type of credit you receive isn't based on what you do but rather how much cash flow it generates. Not so much a complaint as just an observation...like I said, I need service merits too.

Keith_A_Howe
06-28-2011, 05:24 PM
It just seemed odd that the type of credit you receive isn't based on what you do but rather how much cash flow it generates. .

I didn't say it was. I said it might be. Just a hypothesis.

Keith

GregYager
06-28-2011, 09:01 PM
Oh I know. It's not hard to arrive at that conclusion though.

I've got a few leads for affiliates so I'll have to go that route for my speaking merits.

Jack_Reznicki
06-29-2011, 03:38 AM
The merit chart goes though BRE and then Council. I never remember money ever coming into the equation. Keith, you're on Council. Don't you remember votes on changes to the merit chart?
Many times I've noticed "observations" not necessarily being fact.

GregYager
06-29-2011, 01:26 PM
Jack, then what's the logic behind it? Why is it a speaking merit on Super Monday and only a service merit on other days if the classes are identical?

GregYager
06-29-2011, 01:45 PM
When I observe something I'm not declaring it as fact or fiction I'm simply observing and then asking questions. I observed that when I give a class on Super Monday I receive a speaking merit. I then observe that when I give the same class on a different day I only receive a service merit. My final observation is the amount sent in. When I see that they coincide I ask questions. I don't think asking questions is a bad thing. It's how people learn.

Mark_Levesque
06-29-2011, 02:09 PM
One potential reason for the difference in merit types has been posited. It might be helpful if the actual reason were given. A lot of times there is a rationale behind something that PPA does that might not be obvious. You may not always agree with the rationale, but it does not appear that such decisions are made by whim.

Jack_Reznicki
06-29-2011, 02:40 PM
I don't think asking questions is a bad thing. It's how people learn.

No, it's not bad, it's a very, very good thing. But you didn't ask a question. You made statements.

You stated:
"It just seemed odd that the type of credit you receive isn't based on what you do but rather how much cash flow it generates."

Greg, respectfully, there's a big difference with asking "How come?" and coming out saying "It just seemed odd...".

Jack_Reznicki
06-29-2011, 02:46 PM
You may not always agree with the rationale, but it does not appear that such decisions are made by whim.

You're right Mark, they're talked about and picked apart to death. Merits aren't done on whims. What fun meetings when this stuff is kicked around. :D

GregYager
06-29-2011, 03:32 PM
You know how bad I hate saying this Jack but you're right. I didn't put it in question form the first time. It was more like wondering out loud. You have to give me credit for the fact that I made it clear it wasn't a complaint though. What I'm trying to do here is learn the system and figure out how to get the most out of it. This conversation will end up as a benefit once I figure out not only what merits apply to tasks but also the logic behind them. My first observation was obviously based on what can be seen from the surface. Now to dig deep and learn the logic behind the process and I will be better informed in the event I find myself in a meeting discussing how to award merits.

Stan_Lawrence
06-29-2011, 03:44 PM
You know how bad I hate saying this Jack but you're right. I didn't put it in question form the first time.
You have to give me credit for the fact that I made it clear it wasn't a complaint though.

To summarize, remember to put it in the form of a question, it's the jeopardy way.... and you'll receive 3 credits for your inquiry.... please remember, the decision of the judges is final, unless you have a really good attorney....;)

Keith_A_Howe
06-29-2011, 04:00 PM
So I did what I always do when I want a definitive answer. I called the person who would actually know. Camilla is the merits and degrees coordinator at PPA. Actually Holly called her for me because I was photographing a sniper but that's another story . . . Anyway Camilla researched it and called us back within a few minutes. It was somewhat surprising to her also. So she needs to dig a little deeper to find out why it's that way.

I can tell you also I did read through my by-laws. In one place it says "Speaking merits are awarded for lectures on approved programs" To be a continuing education program it has to be approved. So that would seem to indicate that it qualifies as a speaking merit. However later on when it lists specifics under Continuing education the bylaws say
PPA CONTINUING EDUCATION SYSTEM MERITED CLASSES – COURSE OF ONE DAY
Student 1 Service
Instructor 1 Service
Instructor Assistant 1 Service
(Instructor Assistant merits will be available to classes with 8 or more students, with one assistant maximum per class.)

This seems like it might be a contradiction, so Camilla is going to research it further and find out the answer. She said she would get back to me no later then noon tomorrow.

Greg, If this is found to be something that needs to be changed, it could only be done with a vote from council, meaning not until next Jan at IPC. So even if it passed, it probably would not change merits you earned prior. Hope this somewhat answers your question.

Keith

GregYager
06-29-2011, 04:08 PM
It answers the question very well Keith. I think we have a great system and one of the things that has made it that way is the fact that it can be changed when issues arise that seem out of place. This may not be an issue that needs changed but knowing that people are willing to research the possibility is refreshing.

GregYager
06-29-2011, 04:12 PM
Keith...first you're photographing mountain lions...then wolves...and now snipers...do we need to send you to a suicide prevention class?

Keith_A_Howe
06-29-2011, 04:51 PM
If I can face down an overweight mother of the bride, a little mountain lion or police sniper aint gonna scare me. I've stared evil in the eye and lived to tell the tale already!

Keith

Rick_Massarini
06-29-2011, 05:58 PM
I've always thought that the difference between the speaking and service merits have to do with which organizations have sponsored them.

I've always thought that for a speaking merit, you must be presenting the program for PPA or for an affiliate which issues the merit to you. If you speak for a state association or a local guild, then the association or guild is issuing you the speaking merit. If you speak for a PPA promoted/sponsored Super Monday, then it is PPA who is issuing the merit directly, just like speaking at Imaging.

If you personally promote a continuing education class (for a fee), then you are the sponsor, so you would be effectively giving speaking merits to yourself while at the same time personally profiting from the proceeds of the class. As a continuing education tool, your paid seminar could issue a merit to the attendees if you met the API (Approved Photographic Instructor) or ABI (Approved Business Instructor) qualifications, and since you are helping to educate your peers, PPA would issue you a Service Merit for your service to educating others, but not a Speaking merit since it was not done for a PPA affiliate organization. The speaker would, f course, need to pay PPA the required fee for recording the merits for the attendees, which basically handles covering the cost of personnel and the time to do the paperwork.

Think of it this way - if Speaking merits were to be issued for continuing education classes and speaking tours, then a speaker could put together a 25 city tour designed primarily for personal profit and hand himself a Photographic Craftsman's Degree in the process - and that is not the way it is supposed to work.

I could be wrong, but I believe that this may be the thinking behind the Service vs Speaking merits for personally promoted speaking events. To get a Speaking merit, you must speak for PPA or for a PPA affiliate organization.

GregYager
06-29-2011, 07:04 PM
That's a good explanation Rick. Are you saying that the merits are awarded based on who the task is done for and not necessarily based on the task itself?

Keep in mind I'm just trying to get a grasp on the process here.

Let's say as an example I had a class on photographing frogs. If I present this class to 25 affiliates then I would have enough speaking merits for my Craftsman and that would be fine because I furthered the education of others. (I know only 13 have to be speaking, just a sample)

Now let's say I offer the same class to 25 studios with 10 students in each class. I would not have any speaking merits for my Craftsman in this case but I did the same task of furthering the education of others.

As you can see, I'm not debating if it's right or wrong. I'm just trying to understand the common denominator in assigning a merit's value.

Rick_Massarini
06-29-2011, 07:18 PM
The way I understand it...

In the first part of your example you would receive Speaking merits because you spoke before a PPA Affiliate, and they awarded you the Speaking merits.

In the second part of your example, you might be qualified to receive merits for your service in educating others, but they would be Service merits - since you did a service to the profession in educating others.

You would not receive Speaking merits since it was self promoted and not done for an affiliate organization. It is my understanding that you can only receive PPA Speaking merits for speaking before PPA affiliate meetings. In this case, you have put together the classes, so you would be filing with PPA to give Speaking merits to yourself - and you can't do that.