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suebird
03-03-2011, 12:53 PM
I have not had too much time to really research the whole competition rules and regs so please excuse if this is been posted before....just curious if there are actual cetegories that you enter or is it all general entry and the judges decide if the image is story telling ect..

Joe_Galioto
03-03-2011, 12:58 PM
yes there are different categories, i believe the judges could re-classify your entry if they think it belongs in a differant category
suzanne this info is readily available - read the instructions!

GregYager
03-03-2011, 02:36 PM
I think what Joe meant to say was, here's a link to the entry rules...

http://www.ppa.com/competitions/international/rules.php

Joe_Galioto
03-03-2011, 03:27 PM
greg
do you think because i'm from nj that i need an interpreter?

GregYager
03-03-2011, 04:36 PM
ummmmm....occasionally it does seem to help :D

suebird
03-03-2011, 04:51 PM
thanks...i think ;)

just went to your link Greg and this is more specific to International, which has these categories,

1. PORTRAIT: Consists of portrait and wedding images.
2. ILLUSTRATIVE: Consists of scenics, pictorials, digital paintings and similar
subject matter. (Portraits and weddings are not appropriate for this category.)
3. COMMERCIAL: Consists of commercial and industrial entries.
4. ALBUM:
a. EVENT, for time-sensitive social events such as weddings, bar
mitzvahs, etc.
b. NON-EVENT, for portrait and storytelling albums.
5. MULTI-MAKER ALBUM: Images in the album must be the work of the
entrants (up to three), with a minimum of 20 images per entrant. Each entrant
must individually enter the competition and pay appropriate entry fees. Multimaker
albums will be judged as one entry

Then the North East district has two Portrait and Illustrative:
Any advice on where to enter images that are less traditional in style and more leaning towards story telling?

Keith_A_Howe
03-03-2011, 05:11 PM
por·trait [ páwrtrət ] (n)
picture of person: a painting, photograph

il·lus·tra·tive [ i lústrətiv ] (adj)
serving to illustrate: serving to illustrate or explain something


Keith

Joe_Galioto
03-03-2011, 05:12 PM
suzanne
if it's clearly a portrait, it probably should be but in the portrait category
sometimes a story telling image can get away with the illustrative category
you could post it or email it to one the experts on the forum

Stephanie_Millner
03-03-2011, 05:40 PM
Suzanne, knowing that your work is primarily PJ Dogs - you could really fit into either category. In fact, if you have a few of your magazine covers, they could be in Commercial as well.

I'm not sure why no one else would give you a straight-forward answer... maybe if you post the image you're trying to categorize it would help more. (I'm assuming it's the weimaraner from another thread though.)

suebird
03-03-2011, 05:58 PM
Thanks Steff,

I think the confusion for me is trying to determine the categories and their descriptions in comparison to the way i have entered in PJ/editorial competitions in the past.

Illustrative in editorial world is for images with any manipulations and not generally story telling, but here illustrative seems to contain story telling even if there is not heavy handed manipulation. But then there are story telling single images.....not necessarily portrait....

Had not thought of Commercial category at all....could be an interesting move to put editorial work in there.

so I need to rewire my brain when thinking about this organization and competition categories. Thanks for the clarifications,

sue

Joe_Galioto
03-03-2011, 06:03 PM
suzanne
at a local level, very few commercial photos are entered (at least in nj)
it could be to your advantage to be in this category

once in nj only 2 commercial prints were entered in the category and the print master was not going to award a kodak gallery for commercil
don't remember if both were the same maker or the maker with the higher score put up such a fuss even bringing it to kodak's attention that to shut her up they awarded the gallery to a print that was barely a blue ribbon
i believe they changed the rules since then, so that a certain number of prints have to be entered before receiving some of the other awards

Keith_A_Howe
03-03-2011, 06:42 PM
As a general rule commercial demands more technical excellence then portrait or illustrative. IMO other then that it doesn't make a bit of difference. Up until this year PEC did not have seperate catergories for illustrative or portrait. Catergories were added in response to members perception that when everything was all mixed together their portraits were being judged against someone's illustrative scenic. That's not the case. We never compare one print to another (except as a courtesy judging for awards that different groups present). I can honestly say in all the competitions I have judged since they added catergories, it hasn't effected anything one bit. So don't stress. It's really notimportant as far as scores go. It only matters for state or regional awards. that may be based on catergory.

Also Sue, because you are in my district I can tell you that we do not have an affilaite commercial competition. You can enter commercial images and there may or may not be some awards for commercial images, that I do not know. But the only affiliate commercial competition is south east. In other words, if you enter at north central with a commercial image, you may get a seal, but it will be for a photographic open merit at IPC. You can't get a commercial seal at north central. I can't see where this would possibly make any difference to you at this point. The only time it would matter is if down the road you became an approved juror and wanted to be commercial qualified ( could judge commercial prints). Then you would need a certain number of commercial merits as part of the qualification.

Keith
Keith

suebird
03-03-2011, 06:56 PM
Thanks Keith,
That is great info to know, i was not sure if they were judged against one another in some way.

side note : i know We discussed the districts before, so i did inquire, they are looking into it for me. I have stayed with North east for now, just a whole lot easier for me logistically of where i am located in ontario

Joe_Galioto
03-03-2011, 07:43 PM
keith
in all honesty
don't you think the judges(even if it's unconscious) are affected by the images on a whole and it has an effect on the scoring?
what i mean is, if several poor prints come through and then a pretty good one
that pretty good one might go blue
and that same print following several great images could receive a lower score?
the judges are only human
i've sat through many competitions, served on many print committees and judged in different states. as much as you can say that the judges look at each print individually
isn't there sort of a bell curve thing going on sometimes?
unfortunately i never been to the national judging, so i can't comment on that

Jeff_Dachowski
03-03-2011, 08:01 PM
Joe,
I am not Keith, but I can tell you that we are charged with judging what is in front of us. Score the print. I certainly remember the prints that come through my panel when a maker asks questions during the critique, but I am never qulifying that this lighthouse is better than the one before, and since we gave the one before an 82, than this one should be an 85.

Do great prints excite judges? Yes! I feel that every time that title is read, I am ready to punch 100. I then see the print, and make a judgment about which category it falls into, but I want it to be 100 every time!

Certainly when we see 6 71's in a row, and a great print turns, we get excited, but we dont over score it based on the 6 71's. I have judged categories before, and I prefer to judge all mixed in. In fact the system of judging categories might in itself lead to more comparisons by your logic since we will be seeing 25 brides in a row.


Jeff

Keith_A_Howe
03-03-2011, 09:27 PM
keith
in all honesty
don't you think the judges(even if it's unconscious) are affected by the images on a whole and it has an effect on the scoring?
what i mean is, if several poor prints come through and then a pretty good one
that pretty good one might go blue
and that same print following several great images could receive a lower score?
the judges are only human


In all honesty, no.

With a new or inexperienced judge that might happen but I can say truthfully that's not the case with an approved juror. People can interpet what happens any way they want when watching a judging. And particularly when it's their own print or their friend's print they are usually inclined to believe the worst of the panel. Yes judges are human, but that means they are just as likely to keep scoring prints low when a better print comes up after several weak ones. In fact what I've read about imprinting and human nature that's actually more likely to happen. I am not saying it does, just saying that could happen just as much as the scenario you suggest.

Keith