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Rick_Massarini
02-12-2011, 05:04 AM
If anyone is a print chair or committeeperson in any of the State or Local Judgings who are doing any of their judgings electronically. I would be interested in knowing what software and/or presentation techniques that you are using. We are considering a digital judging at our upcoming State Spring Seminar and we are having difficulty finding suitable presentation software.

Since I've been working with the PPA International judging for so many years, I know what is being using at the national and district levels, but this software is not yet available to state or local associations. I have heard that some groups have moved to doing their competitions using files on a monitor - so I was just curious as to what you are using for presentation software.

GregYager
02-12-2011, 02:36 PM
Rick,
I attended state level competitions in Illinois and here in Kentucky and both times the digital entries were presented as files on a monitor. We did the digital first here because it's quicker to take down than it is to set up so it caused less disruption in the process. I'll call today just to verify that there was no special software and let you know.

Keith_A_Howe
02-12-2011, 04:05 PM
Rick
We just judged the Greater Kansas City PPA and they had both print and file judging. They used a members 30" Cinema monitor, a laptop and Lightroom.
It worked well, even with 5 judges. You can contact Steve Williams @ 816-510-8282 for more details.
Keith

Mark_Levesque
02-12-2011, 09:51 PM
I was going to suggest Lightroom. With the 2nd monitor support, you can have the judge's monitor see nothing but the images on a field of black or dark grey, and it's easy to keep them organized. Plus LR is color profile-aware, so you know you are getting an accurate representation of the images.

Rick_Massarini
02-12-2011, 10:23 PM
Does the second monitor support require a dual output video card or can it run on a standard plain vanilla windows laptop?

GregYager
02-12-2011, 11:20 PM
If your laptop is like mine(and mine is quite old) all you need is the one monitor output with Lightroom. It puts the control screen on the laptop and puts just the image on the 2nd monitor with no special video card.

Rick_Massarini
02-12-2011, 11:32 PM
I'll have to check that out. I'm not a big Lightroom fan. I paid a bunch for version 1 - was not very impressed - and never upgraded to the newer versions. I'll have to see if version 1 will do that or if someone else on our Executive Committee has a newer version.

Marc_Benjamin
02-12-2011, 11:46 PM
Q: For the locals, what's the backup plan if the display get's damaged the night of the meeting? Who get's to pay for the damage? What happens if the member who is bringing it in is no longer around the next year of the year after?

Just some random thoughts.

Rick_Massarini
02-13-2011, 01:08 AM
Those are some of the things that we are wrestling with. With print judging, our association has the turntable, lights, and scoring machine. With digital, it's all new - and our state association is not ready to spend $3K on a monitor that we'll use only twice a year for a few hours.

Marc_Benjamin
02-13-2011, 02:29 AM
and our state association is not ready to spend $3K on a monitor that we'll use only twice a year for a few hours.

That's where San Fran is stuck too. The cost of doing business is actually way way higher when doing digital competition the right way and not relying on members for personal hardware/software that may or may not be guaranteed to be there consistently year after year. We thought about the start up cost being start up cost only but it's not really since pretty much guaranteed that the monitor and laptop will have to be replaced within 3-5 years.

With that, are you guys gonna charge more to cover the cost?

Rick_Massarini
02-13-2011, 03:24 AM
We thought about the start up cost being start up cost only but it's not really since pretty much guaranteed that the monitor and laptop will have to be replaced within 3-5 years.

With that, are you guys gonna charge more to cover the cost?

The short longevity of a monitor and the possible instability of the monitors when stored unused for a long period of time are two of the things that will hold us back from making that purchase right now. Our state print competitions usually just barely swap dollars and many times we don't even break even - it costs us more in room rental charges, judges fees, and awards than we collect in entry fees. Any way you slice it - if equipment needs to be purchased, some changes will have to be made - fewer awards, less plaques and more ribbons, or higher entry fees. Right now we're exploring the possibility of using members equipment until everything is decided in finality - but then again - in the digital world - what is final is only final for about 18 months...

But right now, I'm trying to figure out the best way to present the images to the judges...

Ed_Sharp
02-15-2011, 09:00 PM
Since I've been working with the PPA International judging for so many years, I know what is being using at the national and district levels, but this software is not yet available to state or local associations. I have heard that some groups have moved to doing their competitions using files on a monitor - so I was just curious as to what you are using for presentation software.

my local affiliate was using Lightroom in our Digital Critique last night.

Linda_Gregory
02-15-2011, 09:21 PM
I stopped entering our unaffiliated state judging because it went all digital and the feedback was not reliable. I'd rather post here and get feedback, sadly.

Keith_A_Howe
02-19-2011, 02:54 AM
Update, Steve Williams is going to make available all the folders, setup and instructions for their system so an association could set it up and get the sorting for head to head etc. pretty easily. I think they are going to do this for a small fee. I know they set it up for Mac but you could use the instructions for a PC. Worth checking out.

As for the cost, look into short term rental of the monitor as opposed to purchasing. I wanted a 50" tv/monitor for a trade show and got one from a rent a center for $68 for 2 weeks, and we are very rural. I would think most cities would have this as an option, or a lot of community colleges might have a monitor that you could rent. Might be worth looking into anyway.
Keith

Mark_Levesque
02-19-2011, 04:38 AM
I paid a bunch for version 1 - was not very impressed - and never upgraded to the newer versions.

A bunch? It was never more than $299, and they had so many opportunities to buy at $199, it's hard to imagine why anyone would have paid full price.

It has also come a loooooong way since then. And I don't think dual monitor support came into play until 2. We're currently at 3, and I've owned them all, and paid a sum total of less than $400. Not what I would consider "a bunch".

Keith_A_Howe
02-19-2011, 04:50 AM
paid a sum total of less than $400. Not what I would consider "a bunch".
It's all relative, I have them all as well, hasn't worked well in my workflow to date. Doesn't mean I won't keep trying to find a way to make it do what I want (after all I've spent). However $50 is a "bunch" if you are not using it and it just takes up space.
Keith

Rick_Massarini
02-19-2011, 06:38 AM
A bunch? It was never more than $299, and they had so many opportunities to buy at $199, it's hard to imagine why anyone would have paid full price.

I've paid FULL price for everything I've ever gotten from Adobe - and that includes paying $1400 for my initial CS2 Creative Suite - and full price on everything else - and even for a Photoshop upgrade that wouldn't work - and that they wouldn't refund - which is why I am somewhat soured on Adobe. If there was anything else available that would do what Photoshop does, I would use it... but until something better comes out - I'm stuck with it...

Mark - You have NOT had MY experience with Adobe. And I don't want to recount all that again on the forum since I've already gone through that more than once. Just let it be that I will not spend more money with Adobe until I am absolutely certain that I need that new product upgrade from them - I just don't trust them. They blew it when their Photoshop Product Manager lied to me. It's not about the money - it's about integrity - and that is living up to what you tell people face to face. For the Photoshop Product Manager to tell me that something will work and have it not work - and not offer me a refund for buying a product upgrade (one that he personally recommended) that wouldn't work is just inexcusable. Just my (very aggravated) opinion.

I'll probably update my Photoshop and Lightroom - some day - but when, is still undetermined - and when I do, it will NOT be as a multi-program "Suite"... Already been there before...

Mark_Levesque
02-19-2011, 09:01 PM
I am well aware of your issues with Adobe, Rick. I think what happened to you was wrong. That said, I still think Lightroom offers a good solution for electronic image judging. that's all.