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Angela_Lawson
01-11-2011, 02:15 PM
I finally got to see a real print competition judging at our PP of Western Michigan meeting last night. It was great. I learned alot, and it really gave me a good jump start to getting out there and making competition work this year. I am committed to sending in prints this year - NO EXCUSES this time! Silly back surgeries and moving. Ha! I laugh in the face of such adversities, and say that nothing is going to keep me from entering this year. (Knock on wood - hope I didn't just jiinx myself). :o Anyway, I found the whole process facinating, and once I have achieved my masters (long way to go still), I may consider the possibility of becoming a judge.

Oh, and I did get to meet a fellow forum member who was judging last night - Michael Barton. It was great meeting him! Looking forward to catching up with him at Imaging.

Well, I just wanted to share my experience, and to say that if you get the opportunity to sit in on judging prints somewhere, even if you haven't entered, DO IT! It's well worth the time, both for learning and for inspiration.

Keith_A_Howe
01-11-2011, 11:24 PM
Good for you!
Keith

Tss1203
01-11-2011, 11:48 PM
that's great Angela!

MarkTurner
01-12-2011, 04:22 AM
Watching, and listening to the judges' comments, a print competition is definitely a good education. Sometimes I wish I had been making notes, but with so many images going through it would be hard to keep the photo straight with my comments. It's almost overwhelming.

Good for you, Angelea, for getting motivated to enter this year. I'm running through some of my images in my head to decide which ones to narrow down the selections from. For me, choosing what to enter is hard, as is coming up with good titles.

Brian_Dunn
01-12-2011, 04:42 AM
We ended up taking about four pages of notes from the first time we watched a competition...

Missy50
01-12-2011, 04:57 AM
Angela, what a great opportunity!

Joe_Galioto
01-12-2011, 01:21 PM
Angela
You should volunteer to work on the print committee for your local affiliate.
I think you'll really love being behind the seams
Where you really get a close look at the inner workings
Joe

Keith_A_Howe
01-12-2011, 02:30 PM
Yes, print crew is absolutely the way to go if you want to learn about competition. Like Joe says you learn the inner workings but you also get exposed up close and personal to all the prints. It's different then just watching prints come through a panel. I have said many times that being a judge has improved my work by leaps and bounds. It's because I am filling my brain with input. Being on print crew does the same thing. Print crew usually eats lunch with the judges and that's another opportunity to learn. We CANNOT discuss an prints in the current competition until it's completely over, but we can and do talk about past competitions. We can also answer questions about the procedural stuff. I second Joe's suggestion and highly recommend getting on a print crew for anyone who wants to improve their results in print comp.

Keith

Angela_Lawson
01-12-2011, 02:43 PM
That is definitely something I will consider. For now, I'm helping with set-up and take-down of the print exhibit at Imaging, so I'll at least get to fill my brain with lots of the best of the best. I think my problem for this year will be that now that I can "see" what the judges are looking for more clearly, I will struggle with finding anything worthy. But here's to going for it anyway!!! :)

Keith_A_Howe
01-12-2011, 03:13 PM
now that I can "see" what the judges are looking for more clearly, I will struggle with finding anything worthy. But here's to going for it anyway!!! :)

Welcome to the club! I struggle every year. Nothing is ever quite good enough to me.

Let me tell you about my EI experience. I would love to get the EI degree. For several years I didn't enter because I let life get in the way and I just didn't have anything good enough. So last year Holly said "you are going to make this happen for yourself. You are not going to let life get in the way no matter what.' Life did get in my way. My father passed away the end of April. I made some commitments to some other people and I was busy every day and every night leading up to the deadline. But Holly kept nagging ( oops! encouraging) me. So I did four EI prints. I didn't even start until after the first deadline. I uploaded them at 10:30PM, just 90 minutes before the late deadline. I knew it wasn't "good enough" but it was the best I could do at that particular moment. For me the EI case was more about doing it, then succeeding at it. Next year I will know that I can get it done no matter what. The moral of this ramble is if you give yourself permission to not do it, you won't do it. If you tell yourself you have to, you will. Look for your best work and don't let the words "is it worthy" even enter your mind. Just tell yourself "I am going to do this, no more putting off something I really want to accomplish" If that doesn't do it for you, think about your son. Do you want him to have an example of a mom who never achieves her own goals? Or do you want him to have a role model who works hard for what she wants in life. A very wise person once told us that your children pay way more attention to what you do then what you say.

Keith

Tss1203
01-12-2011, 06:19 PM
awesome message Keith.

Angela, my husband and I both will be helping w/set up and take down. See ya there!

Rick_Massarini
01-12-2011, 06:54 PM
Angela,

You might find that you may learn a lot more during the setup and teardown than you might expect. We usually have some very capable people helping out with setting up the display (some judges and some PEC members), and the conversation during the setup is always about print competition. I don't know how many we will have this year since there is also a Council training session going on all day on Saturday, so any who are on the Council will not be there, but I suspect that we will have a few there that you can learn a lot from during the setup and teardown.

Mark_Levesque
01-12-2011, 07:07 PM
Where you really get a close look at the inner workings
Or you could just look in the loan collection book (or loan collection section at the print exhibit at Imaging.)

Both meanings fully intended. :)

Keith_A_Howe
01-12-2011, 07:30 PM
Or you could just look in the loan collection book (or loan collection section at the print exhibit at Imaging.)

Both meanings fully intended. :)

Took me a second . . .

Looking at the actual loan collection, getting the loan book, both great ways to learn. Working print crew is a different kind of learning that cannot be duplicated by looking at the loan collection or general collection. You learn just as much from the images that don't make it, and hearing why they didn't. Can't get that from looking at only successful images.

Keith

GregYager
01-12-2011, 07:54 PM
I think I have the dream lineup for learning about competition.... My reprinted images just arrived from the lab today and will be shipped out tomorrow; helping with set up and tear down of the display at Imaging; having 10 images critiqued on Sunday; flying directly to my state conference after Imaging where I will be helping with the print comp crew and I have 6 prints entered.

mari_latozas
01-15-2011, 06:55 PM
Angela, take that step! It's like an addiction, you will be pulled back every year trying
to take it up another notch. You will be amazed at what you will learn in the process.
The other fun thing to do is after you've been entering for a few years, go back & compare your images. You will see a difference. Go get 'em Tiger! :)

cwesselphotos
03-06-2011, 10:46 PM
I also found the print judging fascinating and very informative - having only recently joined my state PP association I had not entered any images this year. I wanted to get the "lay of the land".

I'm curious though....there was a fair amount of interaction from the "behind the curtain" image handlers and audience members who had images in the competition. The "impression" given was that print handlers were conferring with certain image owners about their prints.

Is there a specific protocol for appropriately managing PPA print competitions? If so, I'd love to review the information.

Like I said, I had no prints in the competition - the type of interaction I observed during judging is very different from my experience with other competitions.

GregYager
03-06-2011, 11:08 PM
I'm curious though....there was a fair amount of interaction from the "behind the curtain" image handlers and audience members who had images in the competition. The "impression" given was that print handlers were conferring with certain image owners about their prints.



Keep in mind that the print handlers behind the curtain have nothing to do with the judging. They simply present the images. The scoring is 100% in the hands of the judges facing the images. It could just be that the print handlers knew some of the photographers watching. There's no information they could exchange that would effect the outcome.

Keith_A_Howe
03-07-2011, 12:48 AM
A state judging is just that - a state judging. Your state may choose to follow PPA rules but they are not governed by PPA or PEC. What happens is entirely up to your state board of directors and print chairman. that being said, in an affiliate competition ( PPA districts) or at IPC - that kind of interaction between crew and audience would have been shut down. So either your print chair was unaware of what was going on or didn't think it was an issue. And as it was not a PPA competition, there is no problem with that.
Keith

MJ_Campanellie
03-07-2011, 01:33 AM
Welcome to the club! I struggle every year. Nothing is ever quite good enough to me.

Let me tell you about my EI experience. I would love to get the EI degree. For several years I didn't enter because I let life get in the way and I just didn't have anything good enough. So last year Holly said "you are going to make this happen for yourself. You are not going to let life get in the way no matter what.' Life did get in my way. My father passed away the end of April. I made some commitments to some other people and I was busy every day and every night leading up to the deadline. But Holly kept nagging ( oops! encouraging) me. So I did four EI prints. I didn't even start until after the first deadline. I uploaded them at 10:30PM, just 90 minutes before the late deadline. I knew it wasn't "good enough" but it was the best I could do at that particular moment. For me the EI case was more about doing it, then succeeding at it. Next year I will know that I can get it done no matter what. The moral of this ramble is if you give yourself permission to not do it, you won't do it. If you tell yourself you have to, you will. Look for your best work and don't let the words "is it worthy" even enter your mind. Just tell yourself "I am going to do this, no more putting off something I really want to accomplish" If that doesn't do it for you, think about your son. Do you want him to have an example of a mom who never achieves her own goals? Or do you want him to have a role model who works hard for what she wants in life. A very wise person once told us that your children pay way more attention to what you do then what you say.

Keith

Pretty incredible advice from Keith. It's so easy for us to let life get in the way. So easy for us to make excuses why we can't do something and so hard to sit down and make the committment to follow through...no matter what. Like Keith said...the important part was to accomplish the goal of entering and not so much the results. Although he did pretty good considering the pressure he was under.

Myb story was very similar when I decided to apply for ASP Fellowship. My Dad passed away just weeks before the deadline. Figured I would just wait until the next year. It was the easy answer at that time. But...friends like Don Emmerich and Bob Golding wouldn't let me off the hook so easy. And my wife...well she basically locked me in the studio until I finished my thesis and printed my portfolio.

As Bob told me...I needed to finish this to honor my Dad. No pressure there...! In the end...it's not so much the goal you have in mind but the journey that will make so much of a difference in your life.

Good luck.