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Mark-Harvey
02-21-2009, 10:32 AM
Just need a few comments from all of you my considerations for this years competition.

DianeDavis
02-21-2009, 12:03 PM
I'll leave the cc to better folks.

I have a thing for images of old guys- so I enjoyed yours.

Keith_A_Howe
02-22-2009, 11:19 PM
Come on everyone, Post your thoughts.
I purposely am holding off as I am traveling and on my inlaws computer at the moment. Lets give ideas and imput.
Keith

Dave_Cisco
02-23-2009, 03:29 AM
I have a thing for images of old guys- so I enjoyed yours.

Let me introduce myself.........:D:D

Dave_Cisco
02-23-2009, 03:38 AM
These are a little too small to get really bold with the compliments, but first pass gets you a "Congratulations":):) I'm seeing better control of light than I usually see, and I'm also seeing a refreshing reality and simplicity in the message. I'm thinking that he last two would benefit from a subtle separation light like the second image because it creates an enhanced sense of depth. These definitely have potential.

PhotogCraig
02-23-2009, 04:50 AM
Come on everyone, Post your thoughts.
I purposely am holding off as I am traveling and on my inlaws computer at the moment. Lets give ideas and imput.
Keith

Frankly I don't critique on this forum because I know you will pick it apart more according to PPA judging guidlines.

Dave_Cisco
02-23-2009, 05:22 AM
Frankly I don't critique on this forum because I know you will pick it apart more according to PPA judging guidlines.

Considering that this forum is OurPPA, I would say that using PPA judging guidelines would be appropriate.:rolleyes:

PhotogCraig
02-23-2009, 06:54 AM
Considering that this forum is OurPPA, I would say that using PPA judging guidelines would be appropriate.:rolleyes:

I didn't say it was not the best, but it is going to be the reason that many will not give a critique.

By the way a critique even from a non photographer can be of value.

A critique can be your best friend if your open to take the information and look closer at the points that were made.

Dave_Prouty
02-23-2009, 07:03 AM
COWARDS!

Just kidding!

The third is a good image for competition. The fourth is good also, but tone down the hands a bit. The first leaves me thinking about composition. Not sure of it. The second image is nice. The Lighting is definitely controlled, but lacks some ... OOMPH! Otherwise, a nice image!

I would say that the third image would merit, with the third or second being possibilities.

DianeDavis
02-23-2009, 10:12 AM
Let me introduce myself.........:D:D

ROFL. You might be disappointed.


Mark-
Thanks for putting yourself out there. We all learn from it.

Mark-Harvey
02-23-2009, 10:33 AM
Just need a few comments from all of you my considerations for this years competition.
Thanks to those who gave a comment and those of you who were "I think I will leave that one to Dave to say":D:D:D

I am looking for competition judge comments That is what this forum is ...right!!

If you want them bigger I will but please I am begging :eek: give it too me!!

Mark-Harvey
02-23-2009, 10:43 AM
Thanks to the ones who were brave enough to give a comment:D

I am looking for Judges comments isn't this what this forum is about.

Please!!! I am begging you ....... give it to me :eek:

If you need to see them bigger, I can make them bigger but the BIG GUYS who run this place have guide lines we must follow..... so I followed the rules!!;)

PSSSSSSttt and they even have rules about the smilie faces :confused:

Mark-Harvey
02-23-2009, 11:12 AM
Thanks Dave for the comment and this is what I am looking for!! :) Don't be afraid to post your thoughts I am here to get some critique.

DianeDavis
02-23-2009, 11:32 AM
Mark-
If you host them on photobucket (or something similar) you can post them bigger. Make sure you logo them.

D._Craig_Flory
02-23-2009, 02:19 PM
Hi Mark;

I am going to talk about the first image, for now. I like it and think it will score in the high 70's ... 78 or 79, unless you get a judge who fights for it. The biggest problem is hand posing.

I played with it and hope this helps. I used the Bakker Saddle for placement. I titled it "Soul Windows" to draw attention to her eyes.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i93/DC47/SoulWindows.jpg

Rob_Wilson
02-23-2009, 02:36 PM
Let me introduce myself.........:D:D

lol Dave..that was pretty damn funny!

D._Craig_Flory
02-23-2009, 02:46 PM
Hi Mark;

I also like the man's portrait, Here is how I see it. I titled it "Contemplation".

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i93/DC47/Contemplation.jpg

Mark_Turner
02-23-2009, 02:51 PM
AARRRGGHHHH! Stupid PPA board and not letting me use the page back function after looking at an image!*&^&^#*()!

OK. ok. I'm ok.

Where was I? Oh, yes, the images.

Number 1. I like it a lot, and wonder if I might like it better with just a touch of definition brought back into the collar to give a hint more separation from the background. The placement is nice in the image, she's a great subject, and I'd score it well. If I was a judge. Which I'm not. I'd mount full on 16x20, and not step it at all.

Number 3 needs to have the hand burned a bit. It's too bright in relation to the face. It's like I must look at the hand. I wouldn't step mount this one either.

The other two, honestly, I don't think have much chance, due to cropping issues, and lighting issues.

D._Craig_Flory
02-23-2009, 03:01 PM
[QUOTE=Mark_Turner;196111]AARRRGGHHHH! Stupid PPA board and not letting me use the page back function after looking at an image!*&^&^#*()!

Hi Mark;

I have the same problem as do others on here. I sent a PM to Gregory Aide about it but it still does it. If a lot of people complain he will see it is not an isolated problem.

Keith_A_Howe
02-24-2009, 07:25 PM
Mark,
I am kinda hesitant about saying anything. I've gotten the message pretty clear that people feel I am too harsh and I need to work more on encouraging people and maybe not be so honest about problems that prints have. But you seem to be pretty adamant that you really want to know, so here goes.

the old man, this type of image was very popular in print competition back in the early 80's. It has recently become popular again and I for one am glad to see it because it requires the photographer to have great technical skills as well as the people skills to develop rapport with the subject and get an appropiate expression. The biggest issue I see with your print is an apparently wrong lens choice. Notice how extremely large his hands appear in comparison to his head. That is an indication of too short of lens and will keep this print from scoring where you would like. I feel the hands are not important to the story and could easily be cropped to eliminate that issue. Here is what I would suggest. I think this will help get the print to a score you would be happier with. I would also suggest darkening the hat and beard and brightening the eye area.
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p308/imager410/man-1.jpg

Next the father and son - There are two kinds of portraits, the way something looks and the way something feels. This is a portrait of the way this man and his son look. I am not really getting a whole lot of story about how their relationship feels as the print is presented. BUT!!! I think that story, that emotional impact is in the hands. Without the faces to draw me away, I can get a huge story just from the hands. So this is how I would suggest you present this image. I don't feel that it is strong for a merit but I feel it will do better like this then as a more traditional presentation.
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p308/imager410/hands.jpg

The little boy alone - again this is not a storytelling image but more an image about how this little boy looks at this age. Nothing wrong with that, but then your impact comes from great technique more then emotional impact. I can't tell on these small low res files if the technical execution is flawless or not. I am guessing from what I can see that you probably handled it pretty well. IMO though you are giving me too much information. I would crop off some of the chair to give more importance to his face. I also feel the kicker is too bright and needs to be burned down.
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p308/imager410/boy-1.jpg

The woman - I feel like maybe you were going for that etheral dreamlike look? If so I feel like you maybe need to up the contrast so the eyes and lips pop more and then make the whole thing lighter to get that more dreamy look. If that's not what you were going for then the print needs to be darker. You also might want to try printing this in b&w on watercolor paper. On this low res file it looks like the whites of her eyes have been overworked. When you make the whites too white and too perfect without any veins, blueness, etc -then they go flat. Also looks like maybe she is glancing upward a little too much and we are seeing too much white under the iris. Is there more room on the original file? Because the crop on the hands will be an issue.

Hope this was of some help.

Keith

Mark-Harvey
02-24-2009, 10:53 PM
Thanks Keith,

Never be hesitate with me as I very open too the critique of people. Your words are well taken and very appreciated. Sometimes I get stuck in looking at the entire picture instead of what can be done to make it more appealing especially to a print judge.

The old man was shot with a 86 mm lens and I do agree the hands look larger. Had I made the man lean a little more towards the camera it may have solved the problem.

With the boy I love the tonality of the photograph and the total relaxed feel and you are right there is no story behind it. You can't tell from the smaller version but the kicker light is just about right when you look at it full scale.

The boy and the father if you knew the story behind it it would make more sense to the audience but since the judge would never know what went on then it is not being told very well.

The girl is just a throw in type image that would make up the 4th image and I really don't expect it to score well for the reasons you stated. I have played with this image hour upon hour and nothing works well with it. the eyes have veins and are not overworked and there is some red in them.

I will take in consideration to all the fine folks here that made comments and will make my decision by tomorrow since I have to get these to the lab this week in order to make the deadline of the PPO competition.

Thanks to everyone who made comments and look forward to letting everyone know how the prints scored.

Thanks Again

Mark

Ashley_Short
02-25-2009, 01:53 AM
"I am kinda hesitant about saying anything. I've gotten the message pretty clear that people feel I am too harsh and I need to work more on encouraging people and maybe not be so honest about problems that prints have. But you seem to be pretty adamant that you really want to know, so here goes."

Keith, I can't speak on behalf of anyone else, but, I for one, appreciate your CC's. I learn something everytime I read them, whether they are CC's of my images or not. :) So thanks for putting in the time and effort!

ashley

DianeDavis
02-25-2009, 02:57 AM
"I am kinda hesitant about saying anything. I've gotten the message pretty clear that people feel I am too harsh and I need to work more on encouraging people and maybe not be so honest about problems that prints have. But you seem to be pretty adamant that you really want to know, so here goes."

Keith, I can't speak on behalf of anyone else, but, I for one, appreciate your CC's. I learn something everytime I read them, whether they are CC's of my images or not. :) So thanks for putting in the time and effort!

ashley

DITTO!!

signed- a Howe Groupie.

John_Metcalfe
02-25-2009, 04:25 AM
Mark, I hope I'm not too late for you. This is the first time I've seen this.
I purposely have not read the other posts, so if I repeat I apologize.

Before I begin I want you to know I am going to be brutally honest.
But, I would rather see you get bruised up in preparation than bleed in competition.

Here we go!

-Elderly gentleman-

Has potential

Hands are hot and seem over sized (lens is most likely too short)
remedy:
darken hands and pinch/distort the hand area or cut it out.

-Dad and Boy-

close but too many flaws, just not feeling it. I say regroup or punt.

Hands too hot
Dad's hand position covering too much of boy

remedy:
darken hands and pray

-Girl-

I see it as being overworked
cropped too tight, cutting into the hands& fingers.
whites are too white, no detail. again I'd regroup

remedy: add grain to hopefully add detail to parts that there isn't any,
but for a better turn out I would suggest starting over with this image
and defining crop and tone before retouch.

-Boy alone-

nice image, has potential but is lacking impact IMO
BTW - It is one of the most terrible thing you can here "nice image", well besides 79.

two ears pulling attention away from eyes.
accent light too strong
would have liked to see a higher main light source and more shadow definition.
remedy: get rid of chair edge
tone down to allow the viewer to see the eyes more

Hope I have helped more than hindered. If you would like to talk more. I am more than happy.

Cheers!

Jackie_Haggerty
02-25-2009, 05:28 AM
Also a Howe- groupie and there's a reason - Keith knows his stuff! Keith, please keep doing what you are doing.

Linda_Gregory
02-25-2009, 09:26 AM
Not sure who here would ask you to tone it down, Keith but if they're insistent, we may have to start a new forum just for us Howe groupies.

When I ask, I want the honest truth, no sugar coating. You give that without being rude and insulting. You also teach how it could have been done differently before the shutter is released most times, TEACHING us valuable information for day to day work.

Louise_St_Romain
02-25-2009, 12:03 PM
Not sure who here would ask you to tone it down, Keith but if they're insistent, we may have to start a new forum just for us Howe groupies.

When I ask, I want the honest truth, no sugar coating. You give that without being rude and insulting. You also teach how it could have been done differently before the shutter is released most times, TEACHING us valuable information for day to day work.

+1
I'd rather someone tell me something I did didn't work and why and then make good suggestions on how to do better next time than the "oh, its nice, etc."

Marc_Gibson
03-02-2009, 07:52 PM
The lighting on all four are indeed very good. I really want to like the first one. I love the whole tonality and the look. However the fingers just seem to be a little too unnatural to me. The second one is nice--I guess that is all I can say on that one. I agree the with others, that the third one has the most potential with a darkening of the hands. Great look! The fourth one just has too many hands in front for the low-key look and is a little distracting. But those are just a few comments from someone who definitely does not have it all figured out yet :)