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Debra_Sportel
10-25-2008, 08:07 PM
OK, enough lurking. I've decided I could really use some help choosing images for competition. I've looked at everything so much I hate them all! What do you think? Does this one have potential?

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr96/Sportelphoto/TrashTalkPimp.jpg

D._Craig_Flory
10-26-2008, 03:22 PM
Hi Debra;

I like the feeling of this image. The expression is good.

He is too centered ... I'd move the subject layer. The background is competing. I'd tone down the bkgrd. and maybe blur it a bit. It is unusual to see butterfly lighting on a guy but I think it works ok.

Keith_A_Howe
10-26-2008, 05:50 PM
Does this one have potential?



That depends, potential for what? What are your goals? Are you wanting to get your feet wet? Or have you been entering for a awhile and will only be happy with merits? Or are you aiming for loan prints? I am going to make the assumption that you are fairly new to entering and make my comments with that in mind.

Yes, you should enter this print if you are using competition as a learning tool. I do not believe it will merit but fall somewhere average to above average catergory. It will be a good learning image. The good things about the image are the subject choice and the title.

The challenges I see are firstly impact. This is a rather basic portrait in a comman situation and pose. There is nothing about it that makes a judge want to keep looking. It's a very saleable client image, but judges will hold you to a higher standard. While a simple basic portrait can do very well in competition it needs something to create impact. Impact can be created with subject choice, expression, technical expertise etc.

I have an issue with the lighting. The direction of light on the subject is different then the direction of light on the background. While that is possible to happen depending on where buildings, walls, refectors etc are situated, it causes a judge to take a closer look. That's why I suspected this was either dropped in or a green screen so I looked at it closer and I am pretty sure that's what is going on. There is a white line around a lot of the subject and looking close you can see the jagged cut outs into his hair. That concerns me because how will it hold up at 16x20? The other lighting issue is the eyes are a little pocketed. D. Craig used the term butterfly lighting. This isn't exactly butterfly because the light is too straight overhead (and slightly to the right). In truer butterfly it would come from above but also forward of the subject so there was not this pocketing effect.

That brings me to the other issue, butterfly lighting is most often associated with glamour type images. There is something about this subject that already looks metrosexual. It is all very subtle but his trendy outfit choice and the slight S-curve pose combined with the semi butterfly light make him look feminine and out of place in this environment. That contrast can work very well in an image - like a beautiful woman in an evening gown in a back alley such as this. But for it to work it needs to be more contrast of subject to environment, more of a deliberate contrast. Here it's a subtle thing so it looks wrong. While I really like the title" Trash Talk" because it ties in the background, his expression doesn't fit the idea that conveys. His expression is too soft and pleasant, which again adds to the slight feminine feel I am getting.

I know it probably feels like I am tearing your image apart. That's not how I feel about it. Like I said I assume you are new at entering so I wanted to give a more in depth explanantion. Remember I said I think it will score average to above average. So that's a good place to be when you are first entering.

I encourage you to post some more images for comments. I know it's hard to hear what's wrong with your work, but by knowing what's wrong you also learn what's right.

Keith

Debra_Sportel
10-26-2008, 11:48 PM
Hey Keith and D. Craig. I want to than you for consistently answering these posts. You are very helpful. I wish more would interject.

Linda_Gregory
10-27-2008, 03:11 AM
Debra,
I see you've removed the image. I am not one to offer much critique as I'm also in the early learning stages but many people do not log on through the weekend, devoting that time to other things besides work, you may wish to repost it and give it a little more time.

Lorrie_Kennedy
10-27-2008, 03:37 AM
I'm one of those that doesn't post much on weekends (until Sunday night late)...I give the weekends to my family and proof work :o, otherwise I would get so far behind!

If you want to repost I would gladly comment. However, when some of our greats, like Keith and D. Craig critique right away, I feel like there isn't really much left to say. They usually take care of most everything that I would have said anyway.

Ashley_Short
10-27-2008, 04:43 AM
Debra,

Congratulations on your first posts! Hope the "lurking" will be an old habit! :)

~Ashley

Lori_Clapp
10-27-2008, 05:02 AM
Hey Keith and D. Craig. I want to than you for consistently answering these posts. You are very helpful. I wish more would interject.

Your post was edited to remove the image and your reason was "enough opinions". If you want more people to interject, why did you remove it saying you had enough opinions?

Keith_A_Howe
10-27-2008, 01:28 PM
Hi guys, I know everyone is just trying to encourage Debra but can we just let this go? She will share again in the future I am sure.

Keith

Michael_Gan
10-27-2008, 05:42 PM
Folks, I have re-edited the post to include the image so that the thread makes sense. I have notified Debra for our reason and encouraged her that this is an incredible learning tool. Should Debra be adamant of having the image removed, however, then we would have to close this thread.

Michael with the Moderator Hat on.

Andrea_Chapelo
10-27-2008, 05:53 PM
Debra, I hope you let the image stay...it is a great learning tool for the maker of the image but also for the rest of us. It is a great tool for all who read the print comp threads. Good luck with whatever you choose to enter:)

Kari_Douma
10-27-2008, 10:15 PM
Hi Deb,
I am no help choosing for competiton, but I just thought I'd say hi!

Lorrie_Kennedy
10-28-2008, 04:02 AM
Nice image, nice looking guy, but he looks too metro-sexual to fit in the alley of trash that he is in. Put him in a Calvin-Klein jeans add (I suppose that dates me) and he would be perfect! Hair is too nice and his expression too innocently flirtatious to work with the background.

See, told you I wouldn't really have anything new to say that Keith and D. Craig hadn't already said. :D

Oh yeah...I have never entered competition, so take my advice for what it's worth. ;)

D._Craig_Flory
10-28-2008, 02:25 PM
Nice image, nice looking guy, but he looks too metro-sexual to fit in the alley of trash that he is in. Put him in a Calvin-Klein jeans add (I suppose that dates me) and he would be perfect! Hair is too nice and his expression too innocently flirtatious to work with the background.

See, told you I wouldn't really have anything new to say that Keith and D. Craig hadn't already said. :D

Oh yeah...I have never entered competition, so take my advice for what it's worth. ;)

Hi Lorrie; You need to prepare some images and start entering !!! It is less traumatic, and less money, to start at the state level. I'm sure you know there are plenty of us you can turn to for help getting started.

Lorrie_Kennedy
10-28-2008, 05:54 PM
Hi Lorrie; You need to prepare some images and start entering !!! It is less traumatic, and less money, to start at the state level. I'm sure you know there are plenty of us you can turn to for help getting started.

Now I'm feeling guilty...but not too guilty. I have actually been going through some of my images trying to decide what to enter for competition. I get side tracked all the time though (age maybe).:o

Since moving 1 1/2 months ago I have been in NC all but 3 weekends. Father had heart surgery, brother got into a car accident, my mom came to visit for 3 weeks, and my vehicle broke down on one of the trips. I have just now gotten room to breathe.

Anyways, I will be checking into local/state competitions as soon as I can. I wanted to make VPPA Conference in VA Beach, but the traveling back and forth to NC has put too big of a strain on our budget and hotel rooms are just too darned expensive at this time, and I can't find a roomy to share with. All said, I will have to wait until next one, but maybe in the mean time I can enter some local competitions and maybe some state level ones. Maybe even see about CPP certification.

Sorry for hi-jacking this thread!