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Rebecca_Willoughby
05-11-2008, 05:10 AM
I have several widlife images that I have painted in Painter, printed on canvas and then hand painted over about 75%. If I wanted to enter them for competition, what category should I enter them under (if there is one that fits) and does anyone have any suggestions for how I could mount them. Right now I have them stretched on canvas stretchers, but I could mount them to masonite or what ever. Someone had suggested that I just print out the painter version without the hand painting and enter them as a regular print, but the painted ones to me are the finished product. The end goal so to speak. Any suggestions?
Here is a gorilla that I did for the Audubon Zoo in the painter stage and the reference. I'm working on the "painting" of it now.
Thanks,
Rebecca

Rick_Massarini
05-11-2008, 06:34 AM
Canvas and masonite mounted prints are not acceptable for entry into the PPA International Competition or any PPA affiliated regional competitions. Your local or state association may allow them, but they cannot be sent to a regional or national competition. Check the official rules at the link below - they include mounting specifications...

http://www.ppa.com/i4a/pages/Index.cfm?pageID=710

Cheri_MacCallum
05-11-2008, 01:08 PM
Rebecca, I enter Painter images all the time. You can enter them in EI or the Photographic Open. However, if you are going for a degree, you just have to decide which one and enter into that category!

On the print...just print them on the glossy for competition. I hate painter images on photographic type paper, but for comp I would stick to the glossy or luster.

Rebecca_Willoughby
05-11-2008, 02:10 PM
Rick,
I had remembered reading about the masonite after I had posted this, but I couldn't find anything about the canvas. I thought that I had seen where Helen Yancy and a couple of others had entered some pieces that were hand painted or retouched into a category, but I couldn't find it in the print competition section. Was there at one time another category that held such things? BTW I have been out of touch with the PPLA for a couple of years because of health reasons (had a grogeous little girl!) but Barbie Vallot from Ponchatoula talked me into rejoining and participating this year.

Cheri,
I know, I don't like them on glossy either. With the ever expanding world of painter, they should find a better way! The problem is that there really isn't a category in fine art contests for what we do (I always end up entering in mixed media) and it's not straight photography so it's hard to enter there.

Rebecca

Cheri_MacCallum
05-11-2008, 03:36 PM
With the ever expanding world of painter, they should find a better way!

Well, with competition, it's a completely different world. The matte fine art papers die and go flat under the lights, so glossy or luster really is the best way to go there.


The problem is that there really isn't a category in fine art contests for what we do (I always end up entering in mixed media) and it's not straight photography so it's hard to enter there.

You must be talking about your state or regional competition. There's isn't a separated "fine art" category at the national level. At PPA you would enter EI print or Photographic Open print. It depends if you want to go for the Master of EI or the Master Photographer degrees.

Rick_Massarini
05-12-2008, 06:02 AM
Sorry about that - I responded kind of quickly to the post and didn't realize that you're from Louisiana.

The main thing about the print mounting materials is that nothing can be applied to the front or back of an image that could possibly damage another image (remember - prints are stacked for judging). A textured oil paint finish is one of those things that can be possibly damaging to the surface of other prints, so I would not enter an images so finished into print competition. Stretcher frames and masonite are not allowed due to the same issues - possible damage to other images and the handling difficulties involved with stretcher frames - a delicate stretcher mounted print would not survive the handling involved in the national print judging, and the stretcher and canvas would be abrasive to the other prints. Prints must be mounted on standard print mounting materials (mount board, gatorfoam, sintra). I have been working at the national judging for many years, and have never seen a canvas in the competiton - not even one on a canvas wrapped mount board. I do not believe that an image painted on a canvas and even cut and mounted flush to an artboard would be accepted. I would expect that the image would be disqualified due to mounting issues, but that final decision is not mine to make, that decision rests solely with the PPA PEC Chairman.

PPLA does not allow canvas mounted prints in our annual convention print competition for the same reasons. We do not have a fine-art or mixed-media category within PPLA print competition either.

Helen Yancy is the PPA Photographic Exhibiution Committee (PEC) Chairman. She enters the national print competition every year and has images accepted for exhibition every year. Since Helen is a Master Photographer, Master of Electronic Imaging, and a Master Artist, it's difficult to tell which category her image to which you are referring was accepted in. The image may have been an Art-Tech entry (conventional retouching), since hand painted images (in this case, I mean examples of conventional retouching using pencils, dyes, etc.) are usually entered into the Art-Tech Category, if they are being entered to judge the quality of the artwork involved in the image. A "Painter" style image (produced in Photoshop or Corel Painter) printed on photographic paper can be entered into the Photographic open or the Electronic Imaging categories depending on what the image is to be judged for - the image itself, or the electronic imaging work involved in producing the image.

As Cheri said, there is no PPA National category for fine-art or mixed-media art at the PPA National judging - it is, after all, a photographic competition, not a fine-art-painting competition (even though with the recent changes in our industry, the line is getting progressively more blurred). Also listen to what Cheri said about the finish - glossy finishes tend to do better under the judging lights, while matte prints tend to go flat. Now if the image is a very soft watercolor, then that's a whole different story, and that soft flat finish sometimes seems to work to the image's advantage.

Hope to see you at the upcoming PPLA Spring Seminar in Masrksville...

Cheri_MacCallum
05-12-2008, 01:03 PM
The image may have been an Art-Tech entry (conventional retouching), since hand painted images (in this case, I mean examples of conventional retouching using pencils, dyes, etc.) are usually entered into the Art-Tech Category

Just FYI, the "art tech" category has been retired ( notice I didn't mention it earlier) ! There will no longer be an art tech category due to the lack of interest in all the traditional media for retouching and enhancing photographs for competition. I'm sad to see it go away, but I guess it's just a product of technology! I personally haven't been asked to retouch an negative in about 4 years.

Keith_A_Howe
05-13-2008, 10:02 PM
The main thing about the print mounting materials is that nothing can be applied to the front or back of an image that could possibly damage another image (remember - prints are stacked for judging). A textured oil paint finish is one of those things that can be possibly damaging to the surface of other

I hate to contradict Rick, cause he is a pretty knowledgable guy but I did talk to Helen Yancy about this exact issue just a few minutes ago. She said that a heavily textured oil is acceptable. However there needs to be at least two coats of sealant over the oils and PPA/PEC takes no responsibility for any damage to the surface of the print from other prints being stacked on top of it. With additional artwork on top the painter effect image it can only be entered in portrait open. EI cannot have any traditional artwork on top og the image.

Keith

Rick_Massarini
05-14-2008, 07:18 AM
Hey Keith, don't even think twice about contradicting me when what I posted is not quite right (especially when it has to do with your specialty as a Master Artist). My aim in being on this forum is to get accurate information out there - so we're both on the same page! But hey, I'm married with children, so I've already proven that I can make mistakes... The main reason I started posting on the forum in the first place was to try to correct some of the erroneous mis-information and assertions about the inner workings of the national print competition that were being posted here as facts by people who have never been there. My main reason for being on this forum is to try to inform others as to the true inner workings of the national judging, in the hope that by spreading accurate information, I can help encourage more PPA members to enter. My aim is to get as much accurate information out there as possible, so again, we're on the same page. I apologize if my earlier post misdirected anyone. I always try to make sure that whatever I post here is as accurate as possible, and coincides with official PEC rules and policies, but heck, I'm human... I may have misinterpreted the phrase in the PO rules about what can be applied to the surface of an entry.

Keith_A_Howe
05-14-2008, 01:56 PM
Rick, I didn't know either. That's why I asked Helen. I figured she would be the final authority! LOL!
Keith

Rebecca_Willoughby
05-15-2008, 01:30 AM
And aren't I lucky to have both of you!!!!! And everyone else on here who takes the time to critique, think of titles and answer all of the off the wall questions that newbies like me post! Thanks to both of you and Cheri for your time and research.

Rebecca

Cheri_MacCallum
05-15-2008, 01:37 AM
The best of luck with your image!!!

Rick_Massarini
05-15-2008, 08:56 AM
And aren't I lucky to have both of you!!!!!
Rebecca

...Uhhhh... maybe not so lucky to have me... but you're DEFINITELY lucky to have Keith. He is one of our PPA-PEC Approved jurors - one of "the best of the best" - IMHO (yeah, so I'll probably get slapped by a couple other jurors down in Daytona, but what the heck, I'm married, so I'm used to pain...). Keith is one of the few who take the time to help others on this forum - and that takes a LOT of his very VALUABLE time, so, if you're reading, THANKS KEITH for all that you do !! You do so many critiques here on the forum, maybe Helen will excuse you from Hollywood... And the real kicker is... he doesn't even know most of the people that he's helping out here - talk about taking that Photographic Craftsman title seriously, Keith really does. So THANKS AGAIN for everyone that you've helped. Also - Thanks Holly for the title!!!