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Angela_Lawson
02-15-2008, 06:05 PM
Hi everyone. I've been reading the forums for the last couple of days, and decided to register, so I could post a question. First off, I took the exam at Imaging USA in Tampa (first conference I've ever been able to attend - it was awesome), and I passed - yeh!!! I submitted my images for the Feb. 8th deadline and am waiting to hear when those will be judged. If I pass the image review portion, and receive my certification, I'd like to consider going for my Masters. But my question is this...How different is the judging between certification images and the competition images? Would or can you use any of the images you submitted for certification, for competition, and what would you change?

Well thanks for any info.
Angela

Angela_Lawson
02-18-2008, 07:07 PM
I know I'm a new member and all, but doesn't anyone have any input?

Angela

Don_Chick
02-18-2008, 07:22 PM
Not replying has nothing to do with your newness!!!! Welcome to ourppa. There are some fine folks here. Don't be afraid to contribute based only on your newness... I didn't reply as I missed this thread...

As I understand the image review for Certification... They (the 20 images) are reviewed as a body of work and what would be acceptable by a reasonable client. The body of work either passes or doesn't pass. You can replace the images that didn't fly in the "body" and resubmit again.

Images for competition are considered in light of the 12 elements of a Merit Image. Also, they must score an 80 to merit. http://www.ppa.com/i4a/pages/Index.cfm?pageID=559

If I had to make a wild guess based on what I've seen for certification, I would say a 73 (average professional) could pass in the image review but of course would not merit in competition as an 80 is needed.

D._Craig_Flory
02-18-2008, 07:27 PM
Not replying has nothing to do with your newness!!!! Welcome to ourppa. There are some fine folks here. Don't be afraid to contribute based only on your newness... I didn't reply as I missed this thread...

As I understand the image review for Certification... They (the 20 images) are reviewed as a body of work and what would be acceptable by a reasonable client. The body of work either passes or doesn't pass. You can replace the images that didn't fly in the "body" and resubmit again.

Images for competition are considered in light of the 12 elements of a Merit Image. Also, they must score an 80 to merit. http://www.ppa.com/i4a/pages/Index.cfm?pageID=559

If I had to make a wild guess based on what I've seen for certification, I would say a 73 (average professional) could pass in the image review but of course would not merit in competition as an 80 is needed.

Hi Don;

An image that would get a score of 73 would not pass for certification. I tell all that ask me to go by the scores of "above average' or better. That would mean at least scores between 76 to 79.

D._Craig_Flory
02-18-2008, 07:34 PM
Hi Angela;

I don't see any problem in entering an image used for getting certified. The only things I'll point out ... you only need red ribbon quality for getting certified (76 to 79) while you need to strive for 80+ scores in competition. The one potential minor problem is if any of the Masters perusing your comp. images also are on any judging panels where you enter. If they they can recuse themselves. I can't see any being able to remember who submitted what for certification.

Angela_Lawson
02-18-2008, 07:45 PM
Thanks guys! I appreciate the input. Right now I'm still sitting on pins and needles waiting for the certification judging to take place. I really hope I pass. Will the judges tell us what they thought was wrong with an image that they don't like?

Thanks again.
Angela

Don_Chick
02-18-2008, 08:39 PM
Hi Don;

An image that would get a score of 73 would not pass for certification.

Hi Craig,

I've seen some certification submissions that were 73's and they passed. Now the whole body of work was not in that range, as some were in the average and above average category (from a print comp perspective). But the individual got back to me after review and said they passed and I took their word for it.

Karen_Linsley
02-18-2008, 10:06 PM
Hi Angela; to answer your latest question specifically, no, they don't comment on individual images. They will give an overall critique. But if you don't pass this time, don't give up. Do ask for individual critiques by some of the folks here, it is extremely helpful. Don is right, they judge it as a body of work, not individually. And Craig is right also, I think they would have to score in the high 70s. Where the difference comes in the scoring is that scoring is pretty subjective. Don might score a print at 73, while Craig might score it at 77, both for equally valid reasons.

Now, I just have to chime in the one certification vs competition question. I just got my certification last summer. I got the distinct impression that the certification judges judge more on the basis of print comp rules than they do for basic client work. That's just my feeling, and I have had some discussions about this with other folks and no one has ever told me anything to make me feel any differently about it. I still think they should rewrite the certification submission rules to fit what they do. If they are going to use print comp standards and pass images in the high 70s, then that's what they should say.

My point is that print comp work and client work are two drastically different animals. What I would consider for print comp ends up in my client's "no" column every single time, and what I consider to be, well, just boring, ends up being the client's biggest print! You will hear folks talking about green merits and in my experience, the green merits won't fly for print comp merits, and vice versa.

But one could theoretically submit a certification image for print comp. I don't think there is anything in the rule book that says otherwise.

Don_Chick
02-18-2008, 10:35 PM
But one could theoretically submit a certification image for print comp. I don't think there is anything in the rule book that says otherwise.

And one could submit comp images for certification too. I had 2 images that I prepared for the client and used them just that way in comp (after adding a border and pinstripe).

I have had a different experience than you Karen. Some of my client images done for comp have also sold well. I've also had 2 client images go into the PPA Loan collection. But I have heard many say that their clients don't buy what does well in competition... go figure!

Angela_Lawson
02-19-2008, 01:16 AM
Thank you so much Karen. I guess I'll have to wait and see what the judges think, and if I don't pass, I'll get you guys to look at the images and tell me what I might have done wrong.

Angela

Jackie_Haggerty
02-19-2008, 02:17 AM
Angela,

I also am 'newly' certified, as of last summer, and do not believe the judges look at the certification images in the same way as competition images. I believe that the judges do look for images that show the maker has a grasp on the basis that a professional photographer would be expected to have to considered a professional- composition, lighting (and when I say that I mean being able to control the lighting situation and finding or creating the right light for the situation), posing, etc.

I have to agree with Don- my clients buy what I show them which includes competition images - and my competition work is client work.

Angela_Lawson
02-20-2008, 03:06 PM
Thanks Jackie. Another question though. When you were waiting to hear back from the judges on your certification images, about how long did it take? The deadline for image submission was the 8th of Feb., and I haven't heard anything yet - is it too soon to expect to hear anything?

Angela Lawson

D._Craig_Flory
02-20-2008, 03:27 PM
Hi Angela;

February 8th was only the deadline for all to be uploaded. The actual judging is later this month I believe.