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View Full Version : Print Comp (Please Help)



Larry_Spencer
02-14-2008, 03:16 PM
go to the links below to view the images. Constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii103/spencerphoto1/Solidcropproof.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii103/spencerphoto1/Pillarsproof.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii103/spencerphoto1/Gotchaproof.jpg

Will_Price
02-14-2008, 03:23 PM
I hope you meant to do this Larry...

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii103/spencerphoto1/Solidcropproof.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii103/spencerphoto1/Pillarsproof.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii103/spencerphoto1/Gotchaproof.jpg

Will_Price
02-14-2008, 03:24 PM
I like the quality of light on the first one and the appeal of the second one.

Teya_Rutherford
02-14-2008, 03:26 PM
These are lovely.

That rock in the first one really pulls my eye. I know it leads in to him, but it keeps capturing my glance...maybe a vignette would help.

I think the second would be helped by a little darkening of the columns also, and maybe eliminate that white spot behind his head?

Love the last one, but the bottom of her dress looks a little hot to me...also maybe darken up the edges - especially the bright spots of that top right tree.

Hope others chime in to help! Good luck - I think these are all beautiful!

Dave_Cisco
02-14-2008, 03:26 PM
I like the second one...should go with the right title. The others look too ordinary, IMHO.

Joe_Galioto
02-14-2008, 04:25 PM
all 3 are quite beutifull.
from what i've seen in print comps., it's hard to score well with a traditional wedding kiss.
i was just at the susan/stewart powers seminar in pa. and they did a posing demo. they talked about moving the couple in for the kiss and taking the shot when the lips were close, but not yet touching. they felt it looked more romantic, and i think they might be on to something.
thought i'ld share that with you all.
joe

Larry_Spencer
02-14-2008, 04:34 PM
Yeah. Coming from the Mid-East States (where competition is BRUTAL) I know the challange of entering bridal prints. But I am primarily a wedding photographer so...

Dan_Leary
02-14-2008, 05:25 PM
Yeah. Coming from the Mid-East States (where competition is BRUTAL) I know the challange of entering bridal prints. But I am primarily a wedding photographer so...

Who are you tellin'? What state are you from Larry?

Keith_A_Howe
02-14-2008, 05:44 PM
Coming from the Mid-East States (where competition is BRUTAL)
I have yet to meet anyone from any region who did not think their competition was the harshest. Sorry but I just thought your comment was funny.

Keith

Larry_Spencer
02-14-2008, 06:33 PM
Hey man! Don't knock it till you tried it. That's why they don't have any high bridges around our convention site.

Larry_Spencer
02-14-2008, 06:34 PM
And Dan, I'm from Ohio so forgive me if I'm not diggin' you're outfit in you're photo. LOL!

D._Craig_Flory
02-14-2008, 06:44 PM
I have yet to meet anyone from any region who did not think their competition was the harshest. Sorry but I just thought your comment was funny.

Keith

Hi Keith;

I know photographers who switched and made New York their regional since Mid-East is so hard. I wonder ... maybe that's why Illinois pulled out and formed a new regional with Indiana ?

Larry_Spencer
02-14-2008, 07:15 PM
I'm from Ohio, Dan. So, forgive me if I'm not diggin' the outfit in your pic. LOL!

Rick_Massarini
02-14-2008, 07:59 PM
...Not saying that any area has harder competitiors than any other, but sheer numbers can be an issue too - so if you want to see brutal - look at SWPPA this year. This year it's going to be an 11 state regional !!! The original SWPPA - Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, - plus the Rocky Mountain Group - Arizona, Montana, Colorado, Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming... I think that may make it the largest regional in the country - It's going to be really tough this year with 6 additional states included !!!!

Dan_Leary
02-15-2008, 12:37 AM
I'm from Ohio, Dan. So, forgive me if I'm not diggin' the outfit in your pic. LOL!

Well, at least you'll be able to spot me at Mid-East... that's my good luck outfit!:D Seriously, give me a shout if you see me. I'd like to see/hear how you do too.

Keith_A_Howe
02-15-2008, 01:15 AM
I know photographers who switched and made New York their regional since Mid-East is so hard. I wonder ... maybe that's why Illinois pulled out and formed a new regional with Indiana ?

Just proves what I was saying, everybody thinks their own region is the toughest. The judges all come from the same pool of affliate names no matter what the region. So if one region has tougher judging then the other it would have to be because PEC got together and decided to tell their affliate jurors to be harder on one region than any others.
If you believe that I have ocean front property here in NE I'd like to sell you. Seriously if there is any difference it would be your affiliate print chairman that chooses the judges from that list. To make sure that regions get as even of judging as possible, there is a rule about not having the same judges 2 years in a row so that judges are spread around. PEC wants the competition to be as fair as possible through out the country. Scores are based on each individual print. Never in comparison to any other prints in the competition. Saying that your prints don't do well because of the region you are in is the same as saying the judges just don't understand your unique creative vision.

What concerns me most about this suggestion is that it scares off l the beginners out there. They hear their region is "tough" and they get caught up in worrying that they can't enter because their region is hard and their work isn't good enough. If this is your first time entering concern yourself with the quality of the images and ignore the idea that your state is too challenging.

Rick refers to the judging in SWPPA this year as tough because of the 11 states involved. He is right it will be tough . . . on the print crew and the judges to handle such a large number of entries. But it won't reflect on the scores. To suggest otherwise is to question the integrity of some pretty amazing people ( which I know was NOT the way Rick meant it) who do not get paid to do the best they can do. Yes judges get a perdeim, but it rarely covers the total expense for food, hotel, travel let alone any time away from the studio.
Where I can see it being tougher is if SWPPA has the same number of awards as before but has added all these other states in. Then the odds of winning a regional award go down. It should be noted that the last I heard this year of having the Rocky Mountian States judged at SWPPA is just for this year while they reorganize.

Keith

Dan_Leary
02-15-2008, 01:53 AM
Keith,
I agree with every single word you said. As a matter of fact, I've said the exact same thing at times when others have complained about the judging. But if you go back and read Larry's original comment, he said the competition, is brutal... not the judging. I understood that to mean the talent pool is wide and deep here, and it is. There are alot of great photographers in this region that, even though they no longer compete, they still have ushered in a younger generation of great photographers... apprentices, children and competitors. Not saying that noone else has as much talent, but just saying that if you're competing here you're going head to head with some of the best. But then I guess that's the point of regionals and competing altogether.

Larry_Spencer
02-15-2008, 02:11 AM
Geesh! All I wanted was some help with my comp prints.

Jackie_Haggerty
02-15-2008, 02:50 AM
Hi Keith;

I know photographers who switched and made New York their regional since Mid-East is so hard. I wonder ... maybe that's why Illinois pulled out and formed a new regional with Indiana ?

D. Craig, didn't we already establish that Illinois didn't pull out of Mid-East and that when you said this before you didn't have your facts straight?

It is also my understanding, and correct me, KEITH, if I am wrong, that you cannot 'switch' regions. If you are in a state, that the region that your state belongs to IS your region. You can only enter as out of state at different regions.

Keith_A_Howe
02-15-2008, 03:01 AM
It is also my understanding, and correct me, KEITH, if I am wrong, that you cannot 'switch' regions. If you are in a state, that the region that your state belongs to IS your region. You can only enter as out of state at different regions.

Not necessarily, I do know of people who have lived close to the border of NE and Colorado and it was closer for them to attend In Colorado. They were able to petition PPA to have their affliation be in the Rocky Mountain region. Later they moved their studio and had to petition PPA again to get their status changed back to Nebraska and Heart of America region.

Keith

Jackie_Haggerty
02-15-2008, 03:07 AM
Thanks, that makes sense. It does take a lot more than just entering elsewhere - thanks for the clarification.

Jeff_Dachowski
02-15-2008, 03:08 AM
maybe that's why Illinois pulled out and formed a new regional with Indiana ?

Craig,
IL was it's own regional. When they had their affiliated judging, it was only IL. They were not in a regional with any other state until recently when IN left their region and joined IL's region.
You must be thinking of IN not IL. If IL leaves this regional, then they would be pulling out and froming their own......again.


Craig, Maybe you are just laughing your head off, becuase I swear I can hear Jackie screaming from here.:)
Jeff

Keith_A_Howe
02-15-2008, 03:34 AM
Geesh! All I wanted was some help with my comp prints.

Your Right Larry
Sorry about your thread getting so far off base.
1- You nice leading lines but there are no dynamics to the couple, they are straight up and down, no real lighting patterns but she is hanging on / touching the groom (a lot of couples don't hold on or touch in the kisses) which is a good thing.
Nice location - use it again and add light direction and bend and twist the couples to add a feeling strong emotion.
2- again really nice location, same problems as above but here she is not envolved with him besides the kiss. Try dipping the bride and exagerate it or bride standing on the rail and jumping into his arms or bride being lifted above his head looking at each other. . .
3 - Here is the strongest image I think, watermark is making me question if it is a bright sunlight spot problem or just the watermark. The couple looks like they are envolved in the kiss. I know I am picky but take this image then suggest she lowers her right elbow so we are not looking into her arm pit. Have him keep kissing her and pick her up and spin around while you photograph. . . to get more excitement into the images.
JMOs Keith

Rick_Massarini
02-15-2008, 03:57 AM
Rick refers to the judging in SWPPA this year as tough because of the 11 states involved. He is right it will be tough . . . on the print crew and the judges to handle such a large number of entries. But it won't reflect on the scores. To suggest otherwise is to question the integrity of some pretty amazing people ( which I know was NOT the way Rick meant it) Keith

Keith's right. I may not have been totally clear and may have been misinterpreted. I was referring to how tough it was going to be to win best of show, best of any category, a trophy, or a distinguished print award at SWPPA this year with twice as many states and twice as many prints involved. With all those additonal entries, your image is going to have to be really outstanding to walk away with one of those awards this year!!

What everyone needs to understand is that PEC jurors do not judge one print against another, they judge all of the images against a standard - and that standard is "The 12 Elements of a Merit Print". They really don't care about the number of prints that they hang merit numbers on - whether it is one or one hundred, they only care that the print gets the score that it deserves when judged against the 12 Points of the Standard. If there are a lot of really good images in the mix, you'll see a lot of high scores and a lot of Seals of Approval awarded. If the majority are weak, you'll see low scores - but you won't see lower scores on the same quality images in differing regions - it just won't happen because no matter where your regional is, the judges will still come from the same pool of PEC qualified jurors - the same pool of jurors who judge at the International Judging - and the same people don't judge differently just because they're in a different part of the country.

Rick_Massarini
02-15-2008, 04:10 AM
[QUOTE=Dan Leary;131476]Keith,
... he said the competition, is brutal... not the judging. I understood that to mean the talent pool is wide and deep here, and it is. /QUOTE]

Then again, even if you have some really heavy hitters in your area, in regional print competition, a Seal of Approval image is still a merit towards your Masters, so even if it doesn't take Best of Show it'll still hang at the National Convention !!!

I also apologize for hijacking your thread... but then again, you've got to be crazy to go into this business in the first place - so you'll have to deal with the rest of us "nut-cases" who can't stay focused... Sorry 'bout 'dat.

Larry_Spencer
02-15-2008, 03:28 PM
You're right Rick, but that's why we all love it right? I am encouraged by the debate, though. Maybe I should have said that competition is brutal on me.