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Mark_Levesque
01-29-2008, 12:26 PM
Chapter 9: Color

Q1) The color that is opposite of red on the color wheel is:

A. blue
B. green
C. cyan
D. yellow

Q2) A lightsource that is too blue can be compensated for with a[n]:

A. amber filter
B. blue filter
C. cyan filter
D. magenta filter

Q3) which of the following is correct?

A. RYGCMB
B. RGYCBM
C. RYGCBM
D. RYCGMB

David_A._Lottes
01-29-2008, 01:49 PM
1. B
2. D
3. C

I think.....?

Thanks Mark!

Stephanie_Millner
01-29-2008, 01:54 PM
Going with
1. B
2. A
3. C

Mark_Levesque
01-29-2008, 02:29 PM
Ok, I should think it impossible to get 3 right and 1 wrong. Perhaps we should practice making our wheels round? :D

Stephanie_Millner
01-29-2008, 02:54 PM
So I looked up 5 different versions of color wheels since you posted this... I am still going with C. And please post PROOF that it's wrong, Mr. Levesque.

Dave_Cisco
01-29-2008, 03:39 PM
It's going to depend on whether you are talking about visible light or pigments.:D

Mark_Levesque
01-29-2008, 04:22 PM
So I looked up 5 different versions of color wheels since you posted this... I am still going with C. And please post PROOF that it's wrong, Mr. Levesque.
Read it like this, "if you get 3 right, how could you get 1 wrong?"

Stephanie_Millner
01-29-2008, 05:42 PM
Oh duh. Ok, because it's a typo. :)

____
and technically they're both right. If you're adjusting pigments, then my initial answer was actually correct. And is it a 6-tone color wheel? :)

Cassandra_Sullivan
01-29-2008, 05:57 PM
1) C
2) A
3) C

TerryMiller
01-29-2008, 06:56 PM
1 c
2 a
3 b


I think Ask me about B&W then no problem, color then I guess;)

TerryMiller
01-29-2008, 07:02 PM
When you thing of a color wheel, think rainbow with red at the top and going in a clockwise direction:D
R
O
Y
G
B
I
V

Mike_Brown
01-29-2008, 10:25 PM
Introduced to me as Mr "Roy G Biv"

The other one is BMRYGC or "Bad Men Rape Young Girls C" Hope that did not offend anyone :)

Larry_Weathers
01-29-2008, 11:58 PM
1.c
2.a
3.a

GeorgeannChambers
01-30-2008, 12:39 AM
Ok, I am working with C, A, C

Heather_L._Smith
01-30-2008, 02:23 AM
I say
C
A
C

Heather_L._Smith
01-30-2008, 02:31 AM
The whole color wheel thing can get a little confusing - If I memorize the one in the book (a 6 color wheel), then you have the two opposing triangles that line up the additive colors and the subtractive colors (thus making cyan the opposite of red). However, if I refer to my 12-color "Pocket Color Wheel" then it actually shows green as the opposite of red... and way more colors to remember! How do you determine what is the right wheel to look at? I assume that it is safer to use the one in the book, since that's what they refer to, but then what do I do with the confusing 12-color wheel I have??

Mark_Levesque
01-30-2008, 02:43 AM
The color wheel you care about is simple enough to construct. If you remember RGB, and know how colors add, you are all set. What color is between R and G? G and B? B and R? Fill in those three spots and you are done. This is very important, and very useful for the test. Write it down on the back of a sheet and refer to it whenever you need to determine something that has to do with color.

Your 12 color wheel is used for something different, and is not helpful for what you care about on the test.

Elizabeth_Pokela
01-30-2008, 02:50 AM
C
A
C

Elizabeth

Heather_L._Smith
01-30-2008, 03:07 AM
Mark - thanks for the advice. As soon as I saw the question I drew my little color wheel on my paper... and it worked perfectly. I think I'll just hide my 12-color wheel in the desk drawer so I don't confuse myself.

However, I do have a question about color and filters. I got really confused when the book explained the different filters and when to use additive and subtractive colors. There's a little chart in the middle left of page 191 that talks about "if too magenta do this" etc... I got very confused in the differences between adding colors and subtracting colors (when should you do which). Does that question even make any sense at all?

Larry_Weathers
01-30-2008, 02:22 PM
Mark,
Could you post a table of contents for the book version you are using to
prepare the questions? The chapter 8 topics are in chapter 12 of the 9th ed.
I have not been able to find this via Google.

Thanks
Larry

Mark_Levesque
01-30-2008, 03:20 PM
Chapter 1: Getting Started
Chapter 2: Camera
Chapter 3: Lens
Chapter 4: Light and Film
Chapter 5: Exposure
Chapter 6: Processing the Negative
Chapter 7: Printing the Positive
Chapter 8: Mounting and Finishing
Chapter 9: Color
Chapter 10: Digital Camera
Chapter 11: Digital Darkroom
Chapter 12: Lighting
Chapter 13: Special Techniques
Chapter 14: View Camera
Chapter 15: Zone System
Chapter 16: Seeing Photographs
Chapter 17: History of Photography

Larry_Weathers
01-30-2008, 03:39 PM
Thanks Mark !

Dale_Robert_Lampman
01-30-2008, 04:33 PM
I think Ask me about B&W then no problem, color then I guess;)



If you have any color negatives laying around, take a look at them. The answers are all there. You can also use your computer to show you the "negative" image of any picture. :)

KirkDarling
01-30-2008, 04:45 PM
I got very confused in the differences between adding colors and subtracting colors (when should you do which). Does that question even make any sense at all?

Heather, "filtering" is always subtractive, which was the rule when we used filters on the front of the camera. But more mathematically (which is a better way to think on a computer), you want to add a negative--that is, add the complementary.

If the image is too green, add magenta. This is pretty much obvious with Photoshop tools, because the complementary colors are always the opposite ends of the same sliders.

But Mark is dead right about needing to know the color wheel for the test. That's still pertinent information, so if they remove any old darkroom questions, they're likely to add some color wheel questions.

Mark_Levesque
01-30-2008, 05:53 PM
However, I do have a question about color and filters. I got really confused when the book explained the different filters and when to use additive and subtractive colors. There's a little chart in the middle left of page 191 that talks about "if too magenta do this" etc... I got very confused in the differences between adding colors and subtracting colors (when should you do which). Does that question even make any sense at all?
Heather, the first thing I remember about filtering (and it's helpful for the test) is that filtering always absorbs complementary colors. If you remember this one thing you may be able to derive the other effects, even if you forget what they are.

There are different uses for filters. The classic use is on the camera, in which you are attempting to affect the colors of light that are hitting the sensor or film. This is the most intuitive use of filters, and all you need to know is that the colors complementary to that of the filter are absorbed, therefore they have less contribution to the exposure. Here is an example. Let's say you are taking a picture of the shadow side of a white house on a sunny day (with some scattered white puffy clouds for a more interesting sky.) And you want the house to look white, not bluish. You would use a yellow filter. This will block blue rays. Now your white house looks white. And your sky looks darker (because the blues of the sky are being blocked.)

The other big use of filters is to adjust a color print on an enlarger (probably doesn't get done that often anymore.) Now this is where it gets a little confusing, but bear with me. When you set up your enlarger, you do test prints to determine your standard filter pack, i.e. the strengths of the magenta and yellow filters to use to take a neutral negative and get a balanced print. So now, when you make a print and need to adjust the color balance, you already have some magenta and yellow filtration in the light. This being the case, you can make adjustments as needed to correct any imbalance, using only magenta and yellow filter adjustments.

The way to understand how this works is to look at the color wheel. Let's say your print comes out too blue. Because this is printing from a negative, you need to invert the normal way of thinking. So instead of using a yellow filter, you want to do the equivalent of adding a blue filter. How can you do this, using only M and Y? You reduce the amount of yellow filtration in the filter pack.

I can hear it now, "Mark, this is too confusing!" Ok, just remember this. When printing from a color negative, you ADD the filtration of the color you are trying to eliminate. Go back to the color wheel. If you have a yellow cast, you ADD yellow to the filtration. If you have blue (remember, blue is across from yellow) you SUBTRACT yellow from the filtration. If you have red, you ADD yellow and magenta. If you have cyan, you SUBTRACT magenta and yellow. See how this works? Ok, what do you do if you have a green cast to your print?

Cassandra_Sullivan
01-30-2008, 06:25 PM
I find the filter things confusing, too - and since i never printed color, that whole filtration thing confused me.


Ok, what do you do if you have a green cast to your print?

Magenta is complementary to green. So I'd say add magenta?

Mark_Katz
01-30-2008, 07:30 PM
I just noticed these chapter CPP things you've been doing. What is it for? And if the questions are all this easy, what prize do I get :D

BTW,
C
A
C

Heather_L._Smith
01-30-2008, 08:31 PM
Ok, what do you do if you have a green cast to your print?

Subtract magenta?

Mark_Levesque
01-30-2008, 08:36 PM
Yes. Subtract magenta from the filtering. Good job.

Heather_L._Smith
01-30-2008, 10:10 PM
Okay, so I went to the companion site and took the sample (multiple choice) questions for chapters 1-9... I"m barely squeaking by with a 74.6% at the moment. Ouch. I clearly need to study harder!

Heather_L._Smith
01-31-2008, 03:19 PM
Okay, here's another question from the companion site that irked me...

Modern focal lengths are usually measured in:
A) inches
B) centimeters
C) terameters
D) millimeters

I said D - millimeters and it said I was incorrect, that the right answer was B - centimeters. Am I stupid? All of my lenses, of course, show something along the lines of "__mm" (unless I'm an idiot, I'm pretty sure the mm stands for millimeters)... unless they're talking about the "measurement" in some other form. Anyone know? (sorry, I realize this isn't part of chapter 9, but it was the most recent thread...)

Cassandra_Sullivan
01-31-2008, 03:42 PM
Yeah that one left me scratching my head, too. That's from Chapter 3 in 8th edition - the hint says 'read page 64' - i don't have the 8th edition, only the 9th and that question isn't on the 9th edition test.
Whoever has the 8th please read page 64 and fill us in!

ETA: In the 9th edition, page 62, it says "Focal lengths are usually stated in millimeters, sometimes with very old lenses in inches or centimeters". So maybe it's a mistake in the 8th edition?

Heather_L._Smith
01-31-2008, 04:04 PM
Oh! I didn't even see the "hints" thing! here's what it says in the 8th edition on p64:

Focal lengths are usually stated in millimeters, sometimes with older lenses in inches or centimeters. There are approximately 25mm to an inch.

Looks like it's an error in their test coding.

We were right, Cassandra!!

Oh, here's another one I got "wrong"
A general rule of thumb when starting to buy lenses is to buy those that are in increments of:
a) Three times the focal length
b) Two times the focal length
c) Four times the focal length
d) Three times the focal length (yes... this answer is listed twice)

I said B - two times. It said I was wrong, that the correct answer is A - three times the focal length. BUT, on pg 64 it says:
"Begin by buying lenses in increments of more or less two times the focal length;"

Mark_Levesque
01-31-2008, 05:13 PM
Yes, well there is a reason I am not blindly copying from the companion site. :)

More often than not, when you "know" the answer and they call it wrong, they are the ones who are mistaken. It is nice tho, that they direct you to the relevant page (most of the time).

I wouldn't put too much stock into the questions included on the companion site in terms of predicting eventual performance on the actual test. My scores on those tests ranged from 40-100, and that's not a super accurate predictor. :)

KirkDarling
01-31-2008, 10:05 PM
ETA: In the 9th edition, page 62, it says "Focal lengths are usually stated in millimeters, sometimes with very old lenses in inches or centimeters". So maybe it's a mistake in the 8th edition?
Centimeters has never been a common reference in the US, especially for old lenses. In the US, an old lens will be measured in inches if American (and there are some) or millimeters if European. I've got some old American photography books orginally written in the 50s, and they all reference lenses for "small cameras" (35mm and medium format) in millimeters and large cameras (4x5 and up) in inches. If you look hard enough, you can probably find some exceptions, but those are exceptions.

In fact, thumbing through some recent UK magazines I have on hand, I'm not seeing any lenses referenced in centimeters there, either (although I don't have any UK magazines devoted to larger formats).

The questions on the actual test, as Mark mentioned, are not written by the people who wrote those questions. There were no questions on the test I took that were as ambiguous as that.

Heather_L._Smith
02-01-2008, 01:45 PM
So here's an interesting side note. I went back on to the companion study guide sample test to look at it again and, while the multiple choice answers were all worded the same, they were in a different order for each question - like what you would expect to see to prevent cheating (give everyone a test with the same answers, but in a different order). I took screen shots the first time I went through the test so I could go back and review my work and noticed the difference when I went back the 2nd time. I'm wondering if they have some sort of programming issue with the site that is causing the problem.

Mark_Levesque
02-01-2008, 02:00 PM
Answers:

Chapter 9: Color

Q1) The color that is opposite of red on the color wheel is:

C. cyan

Q2) A lightsource that is too blue can be compensated for with a[n]:

A. amber filter

Q3) which of the following is correct?

C. RYGCBM

__________________

GeorgeannChambers
02-01-2008, 10:28 PM
So here we are studying away for this test. We are all pretty smart cookies in our own right and then we come up on these test questions that we are pretty sure we are right on and the system tells us NO! WRONG! - It really messes with your head for a while.

I am beginning to think that the best way, for me anyway to continue to study and get through this is to continue to read through the chapters with you all, answer the questions posted by Mark and anyone else who so desires to challenge us through this process. This is, I feel, the way I am going to absorb the material, grow as a photographer, PASS THE TEST, and meet some really cool people along the way.

The companion site may challenge me to go look stuff up again and again, but there is no better way to get through this material than with fellow photographers who are in the mind set and working toward the same goal.

Thanks for taking this on, Mark, and to everybody else, keep on studying...
you will pass this test!!!

Georgeann

Stephanie_Millner
02-01-2008, 10:29 PM
Can someone post the link for the companion site everyone is talking about?

Mark_Levesque
02-01-2008, 11:40 PM
http://wps.prenhall.com/hss_london_photo_8/0,8898,1258211-,00.html

Mary_Pargett
02-05-2008, 09:34 PM
I agree with Georgeann! Thanks everyone! I am not posting answers, but rather looking up the information, reading reading reading, then looking at all the information you all have contributed. I also have been taking the little online quizzes. Sometimes I do alright. Sometimes I totally bomb. So, thanks again. This has really been fun!